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I want your Dominion thoughts and impressions!

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Isphus

Senior Member

11-11-2011

Quote:
VeigarTheHorrible:
-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

-Thoughts from players who tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?


1- Balance:
From what ive seen, the skirmish-focused scenario in the middle area gives melee champions too much of an edge when it comes to assassinating ranged champions during travels. Maybe removing some of the brush or giving any reasonable escape mechanism would fix this (speed shrines are NOT an escape mechanism since anyone can grab them.)

Also, invisible champions can ninja cap too easily and even create traps for enemy ninja cappers. IMO all turrets should deny invisibility to bot allied and enemy champions at all times. Or wards could be allowed. A big part of wards function is to deny invisibility, by removing them you are giving a hard and unwanted incentive to stealthed champions.

The free armor penetration is too big. The largest proof of it is that physical damage champions are by far the most banned/picked in this game mode. "Tanks? They dont encourage the aggressive playstyle we want, lets cut off 10% of their resistance. What kind of noob doesnt pick an assassin?"

Shaco's traps and Heimer turrets shouldnt interrupt capping. The whole idea of the attack/defend gameplay is that you have to be there to do something. You shouldnt be able to just leave a trap there and go somewhere else to attack while that trap is defending by itself.

Veigar and Nasus cant build p their cumulative skills.

2- Pet peeves:
Defending still gives negligible amount of points when compared to capping.

Losing the game costs too much IP.

There is no ranked Dominion.

3- Exclusive dominion players:
I've met some, but definitely not many.

4- Not your cup of tea:
I'm one of those players. What i dont like about dominion is that assassins are always benefited by the map itself far more than any other class. But i guess thats more of a balance issue.

Also, there isnt nearly as much strategic thought in dominion as in SR. Part of it is because if you try to talk to your teammates by the time you send the message you are dead. GIVE ME MY WARDS BACK!!!

No ranked Dominion forces me to always be matched with noobs who will feed and leave all turrets unprotected to go after 1 single kill. If killing isnt part of the game goal, why dont we all just remove the kill gold for good? That would force people to actually try to complete the game's objectives and get quests and stuff. It would also keep assassins from getting too fed.


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Emokore

Senior Member

11-11-2011

I have been wanting to respond to this tread for awhile now. First off I have 350 AI wins, 263 normal wins, and 110 dominion wins. I play on AI mostly with noob friends or with my wife. We also use it for testing new champs and builds. Almost all of my normal game wins are from Twisted Treeline, I have perhaps 50 or so wins from Summoners Rift. I do not play Ranked because I hate draft mode. I prefer blind pick and if ranked had the option for this, I would then try it out.

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

If ranked dominion has a blind pick mode not just draft mode, sign me up! I think dominion is pretty balanced right now for what it is. Naturally in this kind of map more aggressive and mobile characters are going to have an edge, but with the right positioning and teamwork, even the most obscure combinations have won games. There is an obvious group of 10 or so champs that are a little stronger but perfect balance is not possible because of the difference in how SR and CS games play.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

There needs to be more quests!

1. first teem to capture their teams relic when they spawn.

2. kill the cary! (whoever is in the number one position for their team is marked and is visible on the map. Whatever team kills their enemy carry wins the quest.)

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

I consider myself more are less in the group. I still play AI games with my noob friends and wife (sometimes), but I mostly just play dominion now. She use to only want to play AI games, but she is really enjoying dominion too.

Crystal Scar has in fact has broken her out of her bots only mentality and got her back into pvp. She is amazing on dominion has like a 90% win rate with Teemo. She even carries me in a lot of games! lol

-Thoughts from players who tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?

Not me, though from what I have herd is some say it is too short, others say too easy, some say they just prefer classic SR. For me, the same thing over and over can get old. But after 110 dominion wins, I am still loving it more then anything else.


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crzymdscntst

Senior Member

11-11-2011

**WALL OF TEXT WARNING** (seriously didn't mean to write this much)

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

Balance isn't very solid. You've got too many Heavy AD casters who pubstomp with little to no effort, mostly because of the items they got and the crappy items casters got. I think there are more than 3 new AS items along, all of which cater toward AD, when you have champs like Kennen or MF who excel with AP/AS builds if done correctly.

Atmog's is considered strong all around, on SR and Dominion, however, on dominion, it simply builds quicker. Health items are simply too quickly bought and having health creates this tankability almost that some champs simply cannot achieve damage to overcome. This high health is harder to overcome by casters, who have the weaker penetration buff, because they expect to do a set amount of damage with 3-4 spells and then wait on cooldowns. AD champs suffer less, because there is no cooldown on auto-attacks, unless you count AS.

Healing Reduction 20%... this really is awkward to tell how it works. I'm seeing people outhealing the damage I'm doing with a single Sanguine Blade. AP Tristana is what I play (I get complaints, but it works well enough for me), however I have on average by mid-late game 500+ AP (Deathcap, Lich's Bane, Void Staff and boots of swiftness), her E scales at a 1:1 ratio on that with an added 250 or so damage for a total of 750+ damage over 5 seconds. Yet with the healing reduction from E and the 20% debuff from Dominion, I see people outhealing that dot with only auto-attacks. Does that healing reduction apply to champ passives like Nocturne or Maokai? Does Vlad get uber nerfed all over from playing on here? He's only got healing to rely upon. Spell Vamp and Lifesteal, how do healing reducers affect those.

Another thing that hurts more than usual, are champs with AD scaling, physical damage spells. This is partly reliant on the Buff everyone gets to penetration. With the more easily accessed health and Atmog setup, these champs have enough defense to stay alive a while and do plenty of damage all around.

Likewise the AS counter, Madred's Bloodrazor isn't there and instead we have Kitae's Bloodrazor which doesn't nearly counter health stacking as much as one might like. That and the total cost is almost the equivalent of a high tier item.

Warmog's itself is a touchy subject, everyone likes it, but hates to face it. In Dominion, stacks are easier to get from assists and whatnot with the lower death timer and time to get back into action. It doesn't lose stacks upon death, which is what makes it optimal for use on Dominion. However it remains stronger than any other health granting item. With a 920 base health alone, it blows every single other health item out of the water. And then you've got another 450 health added on top of that. This is why it's a problem on both SR and Dominion.

Who uses it though? Mainly people building Atmog's and FoN. Tanks and Tanky DPS, people with shield excel. Then paired with a good lifesteal item and a shield, they become a bit pushier and able to bring on the pain easier, with little risk.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
People who think it's a defensive game. Too many people are too dead set on defending a single point, when the very game is fluid, dynamic, never stopping till the very end.

And the people who sit bot and farm minions, especially with no map awareness to the fact that an enemy is trying to capture the point from behind them. Minions are a bit too rewarding at times and almost encourage this passive play.

-Thoughts from players who
tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?

I still play Dominion as it's new and different than this tedious wait on SR you sometimes get. However the quests system really stood out to me. It seems like it's well purposed, however a few things get to me about it. "Capture point X" sometimes will pick a point for your team to defend, that 3 of your teammates just died at and the enemy is now mid-capturing. Martyr rewards dying on a point, but if a teammate is feeding on a point, I've seen them get a higher score than the person who's taking out the biggest enemy threats and they getting murdered in the jungle.

Points themselves aren't very revealing about how well a teammate did, because you don't really get points for any helpful things that go on in the jungle. People just standing on a point gives points for "defense" even though the point is in no way threatened.


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Señor Pancho

Senior Member

11-11-2011

did "VeigarTheHorrible" even replied to his own thread with some updates on what they gathered through feedback and what they want to do about it?


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37564

Senior Member

11-11-2011

I played a few games for dominion during release, and I re-visited it today.

2 points:

Design intention vs reality
Dominion was aimed for small team fights. But a smaller map +speed shrine encourages people to travel faster, group up and jump on a spot (usually top).

Turret strength
I know that there is Garrison, but the turrets might as well be shooting cotton candies when 2 assassins jump on you while 1 is tanking the turret. After 3s you are still regardless dead, and turret is theirs.


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Holden McRoin

Senior Member

11-12-2011

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
The State of Balance:
-Dominion feels decidely less balanced than SR, with a seemingly reduced champion set from which to pick.
--Assassins and some DPS carries are scaling too well, without needing to earn gold the hard way.
--Casters feel generally weak, with a few exceptions (tank casters, assassin style casters).
--Movement speed scales too well for Dominion.
Core Balance Issues:
-Death Timers
The mechanics around death timers are still flawed. Games seem to be much more balanced now (compared to before the latest changes), but its still not quite right. I feel like three-capping, or possibly four-capping should turn the +/- 2 mechanic off, not just total score. One thing is for certain: we should see some type of indicator bar telling us that we are spawning slower/faster than the enemy team, and by what amount. And why not objectify it, rather than have it be a pity award for the losing team.
-Not enough champion bans in draft mode.
This is a bigger issue in Dominion than SR, because assassin/dps champions have more itemization opportunity due to how the gold mechanics differ on the two maps. If competetive SR needs six bans, Dominion needs eight. Sorry to people who dont have enough champions to play. They can go play random.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion? (here are a few in order)
-Lack of bans make for a stale pool of champions that get played regularly
-The player scoring system is amusing at best, hurtful some of the time, and a very poor indicator of player skill (sorry designers). It needs vast improvements, and it needs to be heavily focused on aspects of teamwork. For example: it is silly to weigh caps so heavily in situations when multiple people are capping.Or when oftentimes the correct course of action would be to let one player cap and others to rotate or go back.
-A minor peeve: the click area for the towers is too big. You shouldnt have to worry about clicking it on accident The base of the tower should be what you click.

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
My group of friends and I play Dominion 99% of the time. Some reasons:
-Summoners Rift laning phase is stale, and drags on too long.
-The pace of the game is fresh and fun.


The Queue times are starting to get out of hand though. Sort of a pain to wait 10 - 15 mins on a Friday night.


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Holden McRoin

Senior Member

11-12-2011

And BTW everyone, "Forgetting about last hitting" in Dominion...is a huge mistake. Its the same as SR...you get item advantage that way.

Its hard to think about balance when the map is not well understood.


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mufins

Senior Member

11-12-2011

Serious Dominion player here preparing for ranked. over 150 draft mode games played.

What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

Dominion balance is fine imo. I bet your data is probably telling you champs like Shaco/Rammus/Jax/Akali/Poppy/Ryze/Kog etc are too strong. Let me clear the air and say those champs are banned because they're pub stompers and take advantage of the one or two or three players on the opposing team that don't know how to play or pick against them.

For example, they first pick akali. The appropriate response is to counterpick with tanky champs and buy oracles but since your in a normal game, you can't rely on your teammates understanding that because you don't know what dark corners of ELO their coming from. So you ban akali. Similar examples can be given for pretty much all the "OP" champs with a few exceptions.

You can't ask what we think of the balance until you give us ranked so the best players can actually play with each other and show you whats actually OP or not.

What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

-Its hard for AD carries to survive in dominion vs the hordes of tanky dps (issue of small skirmishes and not having 4 players to support you in a teamfight like in SR). Ezreal really the only champ i've made work in this category since he synergizes with trinity well and can go Mallet/Atma's after that.

-Hardcore AP champs (anivia/annie/orianna/brand etc..) are pigeon held to bot lane and can't really compete anywhere else. The best way to play brand top is to pick irelia.

-Ryze is the only champ that hard counters tanky dps in Dominion which is a big problem that's not going to be noticeable until ranked comes out. If I was the leader of a 5v5 premade, Ryze would be a number one ban then I would go 4 tanky AP/AD dps with a bot laner.

Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

I play exclusively dominion and its because I don't like the idea of splitting a match into 4 different mini games (3 lanes and a jungle) that can each individually snowball or feed without you being able to do anything about it. Constantly being with your team means you can hold their hand throughout the ENTIRE match. It makes Dominion less luck based and I feel like my victories are actually earned and not just "oh my teammates didn't feed in their own little mini-game so i guess we can win this time".

Thanks for reading
~Mufins


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animalmother101

Junior Member

11-12-2011

to tweak dominion, you need to up the teams to 10 per side, or make only 3 points for the map, the reason why is so that you can have teams of 2 or more defending, also allowing the players to point ration to be higher so you can have an offensive and defensive teams. If they keep the capture points to 5 they need to make it so that you can only capture a point adjacent to one that you controll so that you have to be much more tactical in how you seige cps. just like in ut2k4. also making the points on nexus up to 750 wouldnt hurt so you can get 6 items.


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DynoZhen

Junior Member

11-12-2011

Hey man , Dominion is awesome , very fun in deed...
but i was thinking it would be nice if we could choose the initial health of the two nexus.
something like this : Game mode dominion >>> game map crystal scar >>> game type dominion (normal blind pick) / Normal blind pick 750 / normal blind pick 1000 / draft pick ...