I want your Dominion thoughts and impressions!

First Riot Post
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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeigarTheHorrible View Post
Hi guys, we've been talking internally and throwing some ideas around about how we want to tweak Dominion and I just wanted to drop by to get some of your guys' raw feedback on what you'd like to see!


Some things I'd be particularly interested in hearing about would be:

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?

-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

-Thoughts from players who tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?
RIOT, please incorporate agro into the scoring system, its massively flawed without doing so if the goal of the game is to win, and the point of the scoring system is to reflect your contribution. The way I see it, it must be done as follows; If a player is visible and within a certain proximity of more than one champ, they should get points for it based on the amount of time. Thats it. That simple. If they are not visible, they arent pulling agro, so they shouldnt get points for that. Whatever the circumstances, while visible in a reasonable proximity to the opponents is a potential threat to them, and is pulling agro. I would also advise that it be exponential, based on the number of champs agro'd. If you can keep 3 opponents busy yourself anywhere on the map, thats an incredible benefit to your team and should be reflected as such point wise. You essentially created a 4v2 for the rest of the team and yet you come out with a rock bottom personal score after pulling mass agro for extended periods of time is a BROKEN scoring system. Its all good, the map is new, and the efforts to develop an accurate scoring system are totally appreciated, but this must be addressed and given significant weight in score.

I had about 2k wins in SR last season between normals and ranked. I think I have about 200 Dom wins now, and play Dom exclusively.

I would suggest that in order to make ranked Dominion viable faster, that you give 3 bans per team instead of 2. Its a pretty easy way to balance the whole thing. Later on when you are convinced it has been smoothed out you can go back to two.

But seriously. The player able to hold his own against 2 gets a terrible score while the players outnumbering the enemy get all the points. Total misrepresentation of their contribution. I have a thread called "Playing for Personal Score Vs. Playing for Win" which goes into detail about the discrepincies between contribution and point value awarded for it. Indeed it is so unbalanced that a player can cause a winning team to lose by chasing score. Review my thread if you have time, but it is long. It adresses in great detail the exact issues that you are asking about and what to do to correct them.

REPRESENT AGRO IN POINT SYSTEM, and do so with significant weight if you want to gap between a contribution toward a win, and its representation in personal score. peace. ---DedPheonix


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UglyPete

Senior Member

11-08-2011

I have been playing Dominion exclusively.

The biggest improvement to this game mode would be secondary objectives for the 4 people top. I realize a Baron style buff wouldn't be all that great for this mode, but maybe a single global gold objective, or several global gold objectives inside the jungle would be awesome.

Quests need to go, they promote bad gameplay, don't reward the defending team, and while the attacking team may get some extra damage and some points knocked off the enemy nexus it's not enough. If while going after a quest the enemy team caps 3 turrets the extra damage to their nexus is negated by the amount of time it takes to get a 3rd turret back in your favor.

Personal score also needs to go. Good players don't care about it at all, but bad players treat it like the bible. It promotes playing the game to improve score only even at the cost of doing what is right. There is no possible way for personal score to reflect both good and bad plays that result in either winning or losing a game.

Preseason ranked needs to be started asap so that an actual meta can be established.


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Skeeep

Senior Member

11-08-2011

I just don't like the gradual slowing down of Dominion. Every change seems to take a way from the whole point; fast fun game.


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Helixes

Senior Member

11-08-2011

<-- Plays dominion exclusively.

I think something could be done about bottom and top. After people started learning strategies the game quickly devolved into a quicker, small, Summoners Rift. Bot lane is forced to have someone in it at all times (often a single player from each team is stuck there ALL game).

Balance isn't really that bad. Rammus is the only one who is really OP with no easy balancing. Though I will say something needs to be done about JiBs and Mushrooms on health packs and shrines and such. an enemy shaco or teemo means your team will NOT get to use either of those EVER. An item that gives lesser stealth detection for mushrooms and JiBs could be nice.

The scoring system is god awful. Bot lane players always look bad, and even more so if the bot laner is being out played, or is simply as a disadvantage due to champions in the lane.

Dominion probably could benefit greatly from more Dominion only items, and some consumables.


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Skeeep

Senior Member

11-08-2011

-What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)
I have no problem with balancing Characters for Dominion. I don't understand why it is impossible to tweak stats for Dom and SR so you essentially have two diff characters.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion?
There are very few good 5v5s. I would guess that 20% of the games have a leaver and 50% of the games are complete matchmaking fails.
I have been checking tribunal and it does not seem that the leavers are being punished. This encourages leavers and afkers.


-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?
Yes, I can't even test out new characters on SR vs bots anymore. The slow pace of SR is torture.

-Thoughts from players who tried Dominion and feel like it just isn't their cup of tea. Are there any particular reasons that stand out? Fixable (wink wink) reasons?
I wish all the tryhards would feel this way and go back to SR so they can rage for longer periods of time.


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CorayThan

Member

11-08-2011

I play it exclusively.

My impression is that RIOT cares most about game issues that cause players to not have fun, or become really frustrated, so I'll talk about those first.

First would be fog of war directly south of your southern fountain ramp. When the enemy team gets your bottom point, two enemies can hide in the hidden area, and be invisible extremely close to where you leave your ramp causing you to get ganked a few seconds after you res, which is no fun.

Second, improve over time items, gold per 10 items, and mana regen items/runes/masteries need improvement for dominion. Because of Dominion's reduced game time and increased mana regen a number of items aren't as good as they should be, they could be easily improved.

Third, catalyst is a little over powered for bottom lane. As a starting item for bot it gives so much sustain I think it's really the only option to start with unless you really need to start stacking a Tear (which is a problem all its own).

Fourth, the lightning buff is cool, but I feel like it's really only awesome and cool if you have an auto attacking character, especially with fast attack speed. More functionality so it doesn't feel like a waste on casters or tanks would be great.

As far as champions, there is some definite imbalance in Dominion, similar to Twisted Treeline. It's a different play style, so some characters that are balanced on SR will naturally be overpowered on Dominion.

I think it's pretty obvious who the worst offenders (that we've seen so far) are:

Very good back-cappers/defenders:
Rammus
Shaco

great assassination:
Pantheon
Akali
Jax
Poppy

Great pusher/harasser/defender for bot:
Ryze
Urgot
Yorick
Heimer


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Caecus Scius

Senior Member

11-08-2011

What are your impressions of the balance on Dominion? (If you're a serious player that's gearing up for competitive Dominion, I especially want to hear from you!)

I feel that some champs are better than others, and it feels wrong to try and balance them out at Dom and break them in SR, or vice versa. Also I feel like you are causing this inbalance because of the dominion buff that gives armor pen and magic pen etc. I think we should address balance changes in the respect of messing with this buff mostly.

-What is your biggest pet peeve about Dominion? -
terrible teams of trolls or just people who are AWFUL.
Really the super comebacks are awesome when its you winning, and terrible when its you loosing-
Items- their needs to be more unique items to dom, sort of switch them up


-Are there any players out there who now play exclusively Dominion?

yeah


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Uthgar

Recruiter

11-08-2011

I want to write out a long extensive post, but I don't have the time right now... hopefully soon. One thing I want to say after reading a lot of comments:

It is key to be aware that balance (or rather perceived balance) is very different in solo que and competitive Dominion. Against real teams, Akali and Jax pose no problems unlike 90% of views on forums. Moreover, I think Dominion is an excellent competitive game mode that we will see evolve and it is unfortunate that most people disregard it as such. Hopefully riot balances minimally until they get some real data.


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Farlanz

Senior Member

11-08-2011

I'm tired of forced ban/picks like Poppy, Jax, Akali, and Shaco.

Because if anyone gets their hands on them with any amount of skill, they will completely wreck your team and be generally a pain in the ass. (Solo queue at least)


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Ulstan

Senior Member

11-08-2011

I feel like dominion is in a pretty good state, with the rubber banding removed/ reduced. You still have very close games, but they are that way because the other team rallied and came back with strong play, not because they had an artificially reduced death timer.

I think the champion balance in dominion is fine: there are about 20 champions I think are very good in dominion, so the idea you see the same few over and over is, as far as I can tell, false. Many of the most whined about champions (Rammus, for example) are not problematic in the least.

I would like to see something fun to fight over in the bottom lane rather than just pushing minions back and forth endlessly.

I do think the quests tend to be very unfair: a quest shouldn't be 'take an enemy home point while defending windmill!'

Also a lot of the dominion specific items are useless: sanguine blade and priscilla's come to mind.

Also also, the scoring system needs a way to count captures/neutralizes made by a creep wave you push as part of YOUR score.