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[Guide] Master Yi Jungle (level 1)

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kta

Senior Member

10-03-2009

Anyway you want to slice it, ~80 creep kills in a 40 minute game is awful.


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Lobotomized

Member

10-03-2009

Quote:
Highborne:
kta

Jungling generally won't yield MORE creep kills. It yields more exp for all team members and more gold as well.

I have yet to see many junglers get top creep kills without going from jungle to carry.


Essentially there are 31 creeps that are solo-killable before level 18 and massive farming and specific champions.

So assuming a jungler is solo he can get (taking a long time) 30 creeps at the start of the game. This will yield around level 5.

Now, once he hits level 6-7 they generally start to move out and help push a lane or gank. This may give them 10 more creep kills in jungle.

If they push a lane, say the jungler gets 5 creep kills in 2 waves.

That is 45 creep kills. And level 8. By this time the other players (2 solo lanes) have gotten probably around what is it every 15 seconds creep wave is sent with 6-7 creeps. So assuming around the 10 minute mark that means the solo laners have a potential 215 or so creeps to kill. Say they get 1/3 of that...that is 72 creep kills in the same time a jungler got 45, maybe 50-60 if he laned a bit.

By level 18 anyone can 1-2 shot lanes creeps and we can assume most (unless massive ganking) heroes will maintain about the same amount of creep kills except for great pushers like Sivir or Ashe or Corki etc.


You are abosoultly correct, sir. One thing that made me laugh about your post is that it reminded me of one time when a warwick woudnt quit jungling even after 18. Team battles became quite lulzy, Although i forgot how that match ended. Im pretty sure we lost heh.


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Siveal

Member

10-03-2009

Quote:
kta:
I'll flame a bit for you.


Not too inclined to take a jungling guide from someone who is the worst farmer on his team (in both screens)


That's a horrible flame. Jungle kills don't count as minion kills. He could have destroyed every creep spawn and still have 0 minion kills.


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Cooking Panda

Senior Member

10-03-2009

Quote:
kta:
Anyway you want to slice it, ~80 creep kills in a 40 minute game is awful.


You do realize that jungle creeps don't count as creep kills?


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Outrespective

Junior Member

10-03-2009

This is a pretty terrible guide and you don't know how to play as a Jungle Yi carry.

I'll put up my guide when I finally retire but by lvl 18, if I'm not in the double kills knocking on 20+ I usually call it a bad game.

Also really who blows that much on consumables at the start, you basically just put yourself in a situation where if you get locked down and any smart team will hunt you from the bat, you'll have wasted money on an elixir that you got little mileage from.

You must be matchmade against some real scrub teams if you are finding yourself not needing to pick up a frozen mallet and are utterly dependent on your team being present to be survive, a good jungle yi will be packing 3.3k hp by end game minimum and be in a position to meditate out bad situations while the rest of the team catches up to him to turnaround a gank. Not picking up a frozen mallet pretty much rules you out of any team battle where there is a few sunfires floating around.

Also Smite/Heal is a much better combo, Rally has a stupidly long cooldown while heal will save you (and teammates) from many situations beyond jungling and killing baron.

I don't know what more to say other than this is definitely one way to play a jungle yi, but most certainly not the best way as it pretty much counts on zero harrassment early and mid game which means fighting bad teams. I'll say this, a madred's razor is the first thing any good jungle Yi should get because it means you'll spend less time in the jungle and more time helping gank on lanes.


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Lawlerkats

Senior Member

10-03-2009

Quote:
Outrespective:
This is a pretty terrible guide and you don't know how to play as a Jungle Yi carry.

I'll put up my guide when I finally retire but by lvl 18, if I'm not in the double kills knocking on 20+ I usually call it a bad game.

Also really who blows that much on consumables at the start, you basically just put yourself in a situation where if you get locked down and any smart team will hunt you from the bat, you'll have wasted money on an elixir that you got little mileage from.

You must be matchmade against some real scrub teams if you are finding yourself not needing to pick up a frozen mallet and are utterly dependent on your team being present to be survive, a good jungle yi will be packing 3.3k hp by end game minimum and be in a position to meditate out bad situations while the rest of the team catches up to him to turnaround a gank. Not picking up a frozen mallet pretty much rules you out of any team battle where there is a few sunfires floating around.

Also Smite/Heal is a much better combo, Rally has a stupidly long cooldown while heal will save you (and teammates) from many situations beyond jungling and killing baron.

I don't know what more to say other than this is definitely one way to play a jungle yi, but most certainly not the best way as it pretty much counts on zero harrassment early and mid game which means fighting bad teams. I'll say this, a madred's razor is the first thing any good jungle Yi should get because it means you'll spend less time in the jungle and more time helping gank on lanes.

Your playstyle sounds interesting. Don't suppose you'd be willing to spill a little on starting items or runes/masteries?


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Outrespective

Junior Member

10-04-2009

Quote:
Lawlerkats:
Your playstyle sounds interesting. Don't suppose you'd be willing to spill a little on starting items or runes/masteries?


As I said, I don't really want to put this up before I'm done playing because I don't want mirror yi's jungling against me and none of my friends want to face my jungle yi either when I'm not around. I think I gave enough hints in the last post as to what you should be doing (getting madred's asap, don't invest in dodge it's a dead stat for anyone who isn't Rammus/Jax, elixirs are too high risk in terms of costs/rewards against competent teams and won't make you versatile long-game, anything more than 2 health pots total and you are jungling poorly).

I think it also goes without saying improved heal carries a lot better late game than Rally with it's long-ass cooldown and that heal + meditate + Frozen Mallet + Banshee's or Warmogs late game can turn you into a veritable tank in bad situations, Auto-attacking everything in sight and hoping they die first before they use their ults isn't going to win you games, being able to heal + meditate through their ult spam and then going to auto-attack when all their cooldowns are down can lead to crazy aces and quick surrenders.


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Theophilusophical

Junior Member

10-04-2009

@ Outrespective: Rally is a long CD but it's amazing in team battles, it scales to late game when heal is worthless, it's more helpful to the whole team, and it makes any possible close 1v1 an easy win.

Madred's is a good first item, especially if you plan on jungling all game. I rarely do that though, I'd rather win WITH my team than make them play 4v5 for 20 minutes than wtfbbqpwnzorz. If they have a pushing team or a map control team (ie fate/teemo) or even another strong jungler then you just won't have the jungle time to justify it. It's not an auto first item, but it can be a good first item depending on the game.

I still think the mallet is a waste of gold especially before cleaver/phantom/infinity/stark's. Maybe as a last item but I'd still prefer spellblock or more damage (ie effective hp).

Also, it's Beta, I've got years ahead of me to be an elite gaming asshole in this game.... I prefer to be helpful in Beta to ensure the game is as balanced.

@ KTA: Jungles give no minion kills, I hit the jungle then take out the towers and kill heroes in between. If I start killing every creep wave my team has nothing to do and it hurts them and in turn my chances of winning. No need to be greedy. I'd rather have 4 strong team mates than 1 uber Yi.. just my playstyle I guess.

Anyways, there were people asking for a jungle Yi guide at level one and nobody had posted one yet so I did since that's how I play.


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Outrespective

Junior Member

10-04-2009

Quote:
Theophilusophical:
@ Outrespective: Rally is a long CD but it's amazing in team battles, it scales to late game when heal is worthless, it's more helpful to the whole team, and it makes any possible close 1v1 an easy win.


You won't be building for improved rally or reduced summoner cooldowns so why take it, you aren't enhancing your casters any and being able to drop a buff to melee damage every 6 minutes instead of being able to drop a critical heal every 4 and a half minutes means you'll get less mileage out of it, especially if the battle isn't static and moves all over the place which it should certainly do.

Quote:
Madred's is a good first item, especially if you plan on jungling all game. I rarely do that though, I'd rather win WITH my team than make them play 4v5 for 20 minutes than wtfbbqpwnzorz.
I never inferred that, in fact madreds actually helps you jungle less because creeps die quicker, it allows you to get into the jungle and out very quickly for key mobs post 5 minutes into the game, meaning you keep the sigils and dragon on lockdown, not only buffing yourself with thousands of golds worth of buffs at all times but more importantly denying the other team the same buffs/money. You have a very immature idea of jungling if you think madreds commits you to the jungle beyond lvl 7, in fact with madreds it allows me to out level the solo lanes if you are reasonably astute at switching into lanes and timing renewing your sigils. Madreds also helps push lanes significantly faster when you have scored an early gank and given Yi's ability to lay the damage on buildings I feel madreds is severely underated because of this.

Quote:
If they have a pushing team or a map control team (ie fate/teemo) or even another strong jungler then you just won't have the jungle time to justify it. It's not an auto first item, but it can be a good first item depending on the game.
The armor buff from cloth armor at the start when tanking creeps means you are automatically spending a lot less on consumables, your guide pretty much argues for people to drop 800-1000g worth on consumables at the start, 800-1000g that you'll get no tangible long-game effect from post 10 minutes, a madreds is not only a permanent item but one you can sell back for 700g late game to complete another item, there's always justification for it, even more so if they have a map control team or a strong jungler as a madreds means you get the job done faster and don't hang around as long as you would without. It also means you get out of jungle encounters with more HP giving you the upper hand on other junglers who are caught mid battle.

Quote:
I still think the mallet is a waste of gold especially before cleaver/phantom/infinity/stark's. Maybe as a last item but I'd still prefer spellblock or more damage (ie effective hp).
With Zeal and boots you'll be boasting 425 movement speed early game, sure phantom gives you 438 movement speed and a good dose more crit and aspd, but for the same price of upgrading to phantoms, you could have a phage and be saving for the rest of your frozen, or depending on the team, you could have a last whisper for armor penentration to make your lifesteal actually effective, given that lifesteal is affected by armor values. Get Zeal by all means but if you have time to get Phantom dancer and not miss the survivability you are by all arguments playing a bad team who doesn't realise you are squishy and easily taken down.

Quote:
Also, it's Beta, I've got years ahead of me to be an elite gaming asshole in this game.... I prefer to be helpful in Beta to ensure the game is as balanced.
As I said, your guide is one way to play jungle, it's just not the best way by far and I don't wish for people to get the wrong idea behind Jungle Yi's because of this as it makes the rare occassion I am pugging a good deal of grief because of previous experiences of these all or nothing yi jungle builds that flop more often than succeed at higher levels of play.

If you are going to post a guide you have to be a) open for criticism and b) accept criticisms and respond to them accurately. I was in general fine with your guide until you went into this whole idiotic mantra of the team role a yi must perform which is to be a glass cannon with only his ult as an out because he's taken Smite and Rally, you have to realise your limitations, if you do not have flash or ghost as a summoner skill because of your playstyle you'll have to realise that you cannot be dependent on your ult at all times to save you from battle especially at high level play.

You will not get away from a good Singed with Flash and his ult up, even with a full 12 seconds of your ult available starting at melee range, if that singed is packing a few sunfires you'll have to face the fact that you'll have to be able to stand toe to toe with him and with your build you won't be able too. That's just for a start, nevermind fighting a team with a teemo who is saving his blind shot for you specifically, you are going to be utterly useless without any survivability to last out the blind shot and finish anyone off at all.

Bad yi's are inconsiderate and dump all the pressure on their team to not only initiate battles but to soak up all the damage for him, Good yi's are capable of being independent of the team due to the astounding survivability you can get out of Heal + meditate at lvl 18 (keep in mind meditate also resets everytime you kill with your ult up) and furthermore enhanced by his team and result in the opposite team screaming "OP YI" and posting a surrender as you Ace them again.

I'd rather be able to comfortably meditate + heal through a blind shot duration, then kill the teemo who didn't back off and refresh my ult and my meditate then potentially consider escape or killing another, than panic and run because I have 1/3rd less health thanks to your recommended build and then hide in the jungle until my ult is up again.

I just don't think you have as much experience at playing Yi as you think you do and severely undervalue Madreds and it's resale value vs utterly wasted consumables.

Edit: Call it being selfish in that I'm not posting my own guide, but I don't believe in creating a cookie-cutter community of identical players and playstyles. The practice feature in this game affords you a lot of time to experiment with early level jungle builds before implementing them into actual play and I implore people to spend more time practicing with classes they want to try out rather than just heading to this forum and copy-pasting someone's playstyle. However not posting my own guide does not mean I'm exempt from making valid criticisms of other guides, especially on classes I feel I have some authority on. Furthermore it isn't like I haven't at least hinted at changes people could make and adopt in light of your guide.


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Theophilusophical

Junior Member

10-04-2009

Fair enough, I'm open to criticism.
Nearly every Yi guide includes phage-->mallet but every single time I've tried it I haven't died less or killed more. Getting aces, 9 building kills, or getting 20+ kills isn't uncommon with my build and getting pwned by annie and rhyze combo happens regardless of the malllet's life.... except they're usually dead if they pace around waiting for me to run towards them in the fray.

Also the bonus from the elixir was equivalent to roughly a 2k gold item except you got the benefit at level 1, insane for level 2-3 kills. Sure you had nothing to show for it but you could buy it to keep the buff through 20-25 minutes without being 'behind' on gold. By 25 minutes most games are decided if you played right. It's nerf certainly affected the huge advantage up front is less and I'm not prone to get more than 1 to start and another that I pop for the first team encounter and lasts through the next few.


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