Are supports useless against teams without a support?

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Dakkas

Senior Member

11-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyroie View Post
He has good attack speed, but he's only got +42 magic damage from wit's end, and no armor or magic penetration. All 5 opponents can interrupt his ult.

He's not hurting anybody.
Learn what his Q does. Also look at the cooldown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaard View Post
yeah he was going for the classic solo tankwick type build.


also I never blamed the support, I was merely making a statement that it seemed like regardless of her build, they just had a massive offensive advantage (now i see it was probably because of comp) and the support wouldnt have mattered because it was like 5 rifles vs 4 rifles type of situation.


People are quick to say "op stop complaining it was you fault lolol"
You are wrong. By bringing up the thread alone implies the support to blame as opposed to your team comp which is owned by the enemies

You had no reliable way to stop Galio from Flash-Ult which lets Malz and Annie to lol own your team. That was your problem.


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LancerXXX

Senior Member

11-04-2011

Your team is primarily early-game champions. Their team is a bunch of carries. Why did you let the game drag on that long, and face such a team without an anti-turret Rammus/Maokai/Malphite/Alistar etc? You don't even have a tank... teamfights were stomps, I assume?


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Arlowne

Senior Member

11-04-2011

Speaking from experience, I find that without a support makes zoning them slightly easier. Without a decent amount of potions, your pokes should eventually wear them down until they're forced to go back or risk getting zoned.

But then I tend to go support as Sona, who might've had better pokes than Soraka.


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LordTobiothan

Senior Member

11-04-2011

You had a 1 hour of farm soraka and she didnt 1v5 their whole ****ing team? someone needs to learn to soraka, 700 damage starcall every 1.5 seconds? yeah that's a carry.

most supports stop being aura bots after mid game.


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Shosuko

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Senior Member

11-04-2011

I don't think this really speaks for supports, but for armor pen.

Their team had 2 void staffs and a last whisper, your team had 1 last whisper...

Against end game items sorc boots and abyssal just doesn't cut it.


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Trazier

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Senior Member

11-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaard View Post
thoughts? possible tips/advice about the attached game?
Let your Soraka go and farm and stuff. Instead of this stupid babysitting thing where she's supposed to buy all the wards and farm nothing.

You lost the game because you forced the game to become a 4v5 because of that.


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MBirk

Senior Member

11-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaard View Post
and then since soraka doesnt have as much of a substantial damage output, she seems almost useless.
Lol. nope?

Hell you even were SWAIN. if anyone can make use of shred shred.

Problem was outplayed. Way out CC'd. out tanked. Annie, malz, galio. WAY more CC on their team. 3 aoe CC's very strong. vs your cait traps, soraka silence, and WW suppress. And thats not even including udry stuns, or malz suppress, and talon silence.

Cait had last whisper AND black cleaver.
the other team was stacking HP not armor. Warmogs, fon, rylais.


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Eviant

Senior Member

11-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaard View Post
yeah he was going for the classic solo tankwick type build.


also I never blamed the support, I was merely making a statement that it seemed like regardless of her build, they just had a massive offensive advantage (now i see it was probably because of comp) and the support wouldnt have mattered because it was like 5 rifles vs 4 rifles type of situation.


People are quick to say "op stop complaining it was you fault lolol"
Actually, with the comment you made, it was implying that the support was the cause of your loss.

As was stated though, your comp was wrong. Strong comps I like to see are A main tank, A fighter/Offtank, AP carry, AD carry, and either a support that fits (Not all supports fit with the team) or another Beefy fighter. But no matter what you have, You need to be able to have initiation on the team.

I was actually amazed at having been able to beat a 5v5 game when My team was Akali, Ken, Sivir, Ashe, and another squishy ranged Champion, (Sadly, I don't remember which one it was) beat the traditional Comp that I stated above, though they were lacking a support. Ken and Ashe could Initiate, I'd drop the carries as Akali during that time, and after that, we entered Cleanup mode. With two initiators, we were able to keep our advantage in the team fight until the fight was over, and they had lost those fights. (It's not going to work every game, but you get my point)

Another point to bring up is Not one of you had any real burst damage. Cait, Noc, Swain, and WW have Sustained damage, which led you guys to have trouble taking down their carries, even if you managed to survive their initiation. Though, I'd imagine you were retreating once again, because it was a lost case.

My last point is, All of you had heals in one form or another, which easily got countered by Ignite. That left you guys helpless because Swain and WW could no longer Heal through any damage And the impact of Soraka's wish was destroyed. Cait would also be unable to lifesteal anything substantial.


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ECHOPLANT

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Senior Member

11-04-2011

You should think of Support as Anti-DPS rather than Support. At 18, Soraka's heal does 350 2x per teamfight, and her ultimate does (440x5) 2200. 2900 anti-dps is pretty **** good. This assumes you have 9% cd and 0 AP.

If a level 18 Ashe with 250 dmg fired her ultimate, 4 multishots, and got off 10 autoattacks, thats 4420 damage.

Take into account that every point of damage is reduced by enemy armor and magic resistance, so Ashe's damage total is reduced.

Also take into account that every point of healing is NOT reduced in any way, and that the healing then gets armor/magic resistance added while on the champion.



Imagine you healed the team with R and the tank with W.
The tank gets 1140 true health points. If the tank is running at least 50% armor/MR damage mitigation, you've given him AT least 2280 effective hit points.


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doo0ooooooom

Senior Member

11-04-2011

Your problem is that your team has hardly any DPS.

cait's build is incredibly bad. She has no crit at all... any 6 item cait build should have infinity edge and at least 1 phantom dancer. Instead she builds black cleaver, last whisper AND madreds... That's three clashing ways of bypassing armor with no synergy at all. She's going to be putting out 200-300 less DPS than a reasonably built cait.

Warwick and Noct are both going very tanky and swain has no deathcap... (not to critique the builds, just saying) your team just isn't set up to kill anyone.