Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


How do you like the concept for Horizon?

I love it, there is only a little I would change! 29 42.65%
I like it, but it may need some touching up. 26 38.24%
I don't like it, it needs a lot of work. 8 11.76%
I hate it, it shouldn't even exist! 5 7.35%
Voters 68 .

Horizon, the Gravitic Anomaly

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bliztron

Senior Member

11-03-2011

Goin to bed soon, but i feel the need to bring up two things: W and your horrid excuse on rewording the passive

W- Yes, it is true that Rupture deals more damage, but it also costs more and Cho'Gath has smaller mana, making the cost vs reward very, very critical. With that in mind filed inwith your statement, I haver come to the conclusion that this is not OP. It is, however, a little unoriginal for my tatse, exhibiting the same core setup as Cho. That last sentence is MY PERSONAL FEELINGS, so don't jump on me about it.

Clarification Are you kidding me? It honestly doesn't matter how little people think it is confusing, you should always try to make the text so everyone can unsderstand it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KobaltKode

Senior Member

11-04-2011

All I am saying with numbers is that, outside of the ratios and % based damage...I don't see the point in having them. It's a personal peeve of mine. Nothing you have to change.

I see it this way...Realistically, that base damage of a skill is unimportant in comparison to kit synergy. Had you actually been working for riot at the time you designed it, it wouldn't matter much to them either. This is a balancing issue, best fixed with play experience and over time. I would personally like to see people describe their skill by "feel." IE: this skill is the core of the character and should feel powerful and rewarding to use. Ratios and % don't hurt because they help give a people a feel for how much.

In the numbers game the only ones that matter to me generally deal with cooldown, range and size of the effect. The second you place the numbers people have stopped judging your kit and started comparing your skills with similar ones that other champs have. The actual spread in measuring out pros and cons of that skill is far too complicated for the people on the boards, except for in cases where a skill is similar to other and obviously better in every way. An example of this would be your slow...

First it can be compared to other non-damaging slows in terms of power of slow, ones like Singed's adhesive or or Nasus' wither. Consideration can be taken for the fact that it is single target, putting it closer to wither and making the duration fine...Especially in a mainly defensive kit [once again I didn't bother with the math on your offense]. Support-wise your skill comes closest to mirroring Galio's bulwarks, minus the positive healing effect and plus 1 second in duration. Your skill is special though in that it has a negative in both situation, which is what gives you breathing room.

Of course certain considerations would have to be taken, like the synergy between his Q and W. It's all too delicate a balancing act. Also, quite honestly, it's a waste of your time on a champion that cannot be tested...You are trying to please a group of people reviewing your concept who all have different notions of what exactly is balanced.

That's neither here nor there in regards to your concept though!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ayketh

Senior Member

11-04-2011

@Bliztron: I can see that you took my response the wrong way. There's no need to become defensive or be insulted about this, and that was not my intention. I was merely giving my own input on your opinion, and I'm sorry if it came off a bit harsh. In my opinion, the execution of Horizon's W may not be completely original, but I feel like the effect and purpose that it serves is, which is what I was really going for in his concept.

My response to your input on my passive not being clearly written was one of curiosity, not apathy. After I read your comment I scanned over the wording to see if there was anything unclear, and I probably will again.

@KobaltKode: You bring up a good point. For some people, the numbers distract from the concept as a whole. I actually feel differently about them, though. I view them as a way to make the concept feel more worked out and able to be imagined with their effectiveness on the battlefield, instead of relying on others to fill in that information for me. They are mere guidelines to view their general effectiveness to help imagine what the character would be like, and to better formulate theoretical strategies. A way to further understand, not distract.

But that's just me, and not everyone thinks the same (obviously) Are there spoiler tags in these forums? Being able to hide the numbers would help a good deal in meeting both mindsets.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bliztron

Senior Member

11-05-2011

I'm just sayin, but i wasn't mad. Srry if it sounded like i was. I was simply trying to give constructive critism


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ayketh

Senior Member

11-05-2011

I understand; I do appreciate the input, even if I do not necessarily agree with it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vulcanös

Senior Member

11-05-2011

Alright man.. dat passive. Build an unstacked warmogs, get ~180 ap? Build two, unstacked, get 360 ap? Then it's just a matter of stacking them and getting the right ap gear and he'd have the highest ap in the entire game, only second to a veigar that managed to stack his rediculously. If you want to have that slow, get rid of this or turn it all down a hell of a lot, I think you underestimate how much bonus hp some items give :P
This guy also has a HELL of a lot of CC, he pushes, he has two slows and his ult can stun too. Then there's another stuff.
Right now he's just rediculously imbalanced, not to mention his ult is 1:1?! Starting at 400ap?
So as you've worked it out, 4 warmogs, boots and a Rabadons is going to make an indestructible fortress that one shots with his ult and tears people to pieces with his other abilities as well.
That passive is just too much, and his ult should not be 1:1, the only time you'll see 1:1 abilities like that are on champion that do not build ap, like Pantheon (But with the exception of Nunu, because only two of his abilities even effect enemies at all).
Sooo yeah you've got a lot of balancing issues here. The way his armour/mr and speed ability works is actually pretty good, but when its working with the passive, it's a bit silly. I think the only major problem I have with this character is that his two passives just make everything else completely unstoppable, you should really just pick a new one entirely, or remove a lot of cc and massively turn down his scaling to account for the passive.
All up the ideas are good, but the numbers certainly aren't. If you want an example of a passive that gains ap from hp, look at Vlad, those numbers are tiny for a reason.
Goodluck friend Imbalanced, but good mechanic ideas, just the ratios and sync that's a bit messed up.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bigg Fuddgee

Senior Member

11-05-2011

now to your review i promised.

passive: OP....warmongs stacking. you get 2 warmongs thats 2700. lets say you have 4000 health your talking about slowing enemies running away from you by 50% thats a lot. then your saying you get 80 bonus ap. What i hate the most is that you give increased movement speed to enemies moving towards you....your giving them a mega buff like vayne? how do you plan to escape when enemies run 50% faster at you? unique ideas but numbers need work. id say if anything cap slow at 15% and cap AP at 40ish then make it where allies move faster towards you at 20% so they can get back in the lane faster.

Q: and you add another slow? i like what you did the the reversible but too much slow perhaps? i have a suggestion....allies gain X armor and MR but take X damage every second. Enemies get half the armor and mr but take double the health a second...that way you do damage and you don't have tons of slowing effects.

W: Looks good. neat concept

E: generic charge looks fine. not quite unique but most tanks have a charge so its fine.

R: wow that max range is crazy, but its fine i think it almost UP. giving the situation you are fighting 1v1 and u use this and they don't hit anything and now you can catch them....on the other hand you use it in a team fight it suddenly becomes a 4v5 if you use it correctly. can't say much on that.

Overall its unique and good id just relook the passive and ultimate a bit.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ayketh

Senior Member

11-05-2011

@Vulcanos: I admit, I didn't look into too much into the numbers for the scaling bonus HP, I just thought it was a good concept to promote more tankish builds. The original passive already promotes this, so I suppose getting rid of the effect would do well enough. Horizon's concept is based off of gravity, so slowing is a major part of this concept. I was told that slows coming from the same champ did not stack, so I assumed that either the Q or the passive would be in effect at a time, not on top of each other. Without the crazy AP gain from bonus HP, Horizon's ult should be manageable even with the 1:1 AP ratio. It can do with a slight reduction, though, as its purpose isn't for pure damage. Also...it's 2%, not 20%. 4000 bonus HP would give a mere 80 AP. But the point still stands, I suppose.

@Bigg Fuddgee: The passive only works off of bonus health, not health in general. One Warmogs would give about 18% when maxed out. This is not a considerable amount, and even when stacking several you must take into account the gold needed to supply all of the Warmogs. I wrote a section under the Warmog's recommended item, and it gives a good counter-argument to the supposed OP nature of stacking Warmog's on Horizon, and why it is actually detrimental to his concept.

The speed buff given to enemies is used to force them to commit, causing them to more easily overextend. Horizon's Q and E can be used to counteract this buff when it would be used to the opponent's advantage. Q will easily overcome the movement buff that the passive would ever give, and his E can dash a considerable distance to escape from his foes as well as place an untraversable wall to further impede chase.. Enemies lose the buff when outside of the passive's range, which E can quickly push through, as well as move over walls. I really tried to balance out his concept so that both chasing and escaping are excelling factors when played correctly. Ult is UP? I think it looks alright, as it can really shut down an enemy when aimed correctly. With the one second channel, it's very possible that the shot can miss. And, well, missing an ult sucks :P

I would really like some counter feedback from you both before I make any changes, as you both bring up good points.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vulcanös

Senior Member

11-05-2011

Two tiny things: Passive works that way, I guess.
Never ever will Riot allow a champion that INCREASES enemy movement speed. So.. yup. Might want to change that one.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ayketh

Senior Member

11-05-2011

I used the supposed buff for flavor and for balance. I could get rid of the enemy buff, but would that be balanced? If not, it can just be increased to a 1%/100 bonus HP. By that token, what are your views on Q in this aspect of debuffing allies and buffing enemies for a stronger beneficial effect? (Beneficial being slowing enemies and buffing allies) Taking into consideration that the negative effect is lessened for allies/enemies.