Experiment: Design a Magic Penetration Item

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plasmatorture

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Senior Member

09-25-2009

Mid Tier:
Wraith Blade 1175 (Faerie Charm x2 360 + Long Sword 415 + Recipe 400)
An ethereal blade, that penetrates straight to your target's soul.
15 Mana / 5
+20 Damage
+15 Magic Penetration

High Tier:
Plasma Boiler 3800 (Wraith Blade 1175 + Glacial Shroud 1675 + Recipe 950)
An intense torture device, used to boil the very blood of one's enemies
18 Mana / 5
+20 Damage
500 mana
40 Armor
UNIQUE passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 20%
UNIQUE passive: Your magical spells penetrate 50% of your target's mana resisitance, and return 20% of the damage dealt as mana.


....Something like that. Numbers need to be tweaked and I'm not too happy about the longsword being in there purely for flavor since it makes it even more appealing for battlemages, but I was trying to think of something unique. Might be combining too much, but I felt the main components were some sort of mana leech (on spell cast is more interesting than attack damage I think), magic penetration obviously, and cooldown reduction.


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Savage

Senior Member

09-25-2009

General design constraints:

1). The item should give % Magic Penetration, not flat Magic Penetration.

Flat magic penetration is very strong against low magic resist opponents but is significantly weaker against higher magic resist opponents; in fact as opponents stack more magic resistance it becomes preferable to just stack more AP than to get magic penetration (where you have the choice right now, using runes).

Percentage magic penetration on the other hand does what you want, it gets substantially better against opponents that stack magic resist but is marginal against opponents who don't. Hence, % magic penetration is what you want.

2). The item should not give large amounts of Ability Power.

You're already going to get huge multiplicative effects out of this as a first item off of base ability damage being so high. If the item has a large amount of ability power on it, the cost is going to have to reflect both that AP, and the multiplicative effect it will have with any ability power on the item.

I think you really want to maximize the amount of penetration on the item. I'd prefer it to be a weak standalone item that gets attractive once you have a decent amount of AP built up through other items; this would allow it be an item that really comes into its own late in the game, which is where caster items are deficient.

3). It should not grant Magic Resistance

Mostly because things get stupid when the natural counter to an item is taking that item too.


Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of attractive stats for ability-focused characters, especially on the offensive side of things. Some mana or mana regen is ok but I don't want to sink a lot of budget into it.

So we end up with options like:

+30 Ability Power, +30% Magic Penetration, +250 Mana

or if you want something that builds off codex:

+30 Ability Power, +20% Magic Penetration, 15% Reduced Cooldowns, +7 mp5.

Toss a Sapphire or Cloth Armor on there for another ingredient. I'm not sure if I like magic pen coupled with reduced cooldowns, or if I like them better separate.

Or if you want to make something really attractive:

+30 Ability Power, +25% Magic Penetration, +500 Health.


The only stats I really care about on late game caster items (as anything magic pen related should be) are Ability Power, Health, Armor, Magic Resist, Cooldowns, and Move Speed. Anything else is ok but not something I want to spend a significant amount of item budget on.


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prYzm

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Senior Member

09-26-2009

i agree with most in that abiliity power should really not be a key component, also as some have said having MR on the same item is bad. a lot of people seem to be either generating an 'all in one' offensive item. i dont have a specific proposed item to say what the magic pen should be in. However it seems to me that having -cd +mana/5 +ap and magic pen (% or flat) on a single item seems a tad rediculous. keep it to 3 of the stats perhaps, even if you have to scale up the mana/time or the magic pen. Having everything on the one item seems just too strong and it would become a 'every caster gets this' item.


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plasmatorture

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Senior Member

09-26-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by prYzm View Post
i agree with most in that abiliity power should really not be a key component, also as some have said having MR on the same item is bad. a lot of people seem to be either generating an 'all in one' offensive item. i dont have a specific proposed item to say what the magic pen should be in. However it seems to me that having -cd +mana/5 +ap and magic pen (% or flat) on a single item seems a tad rediculous. keep it to 3 of the stats perhaps, even if you have to scale up the mana/time or the magic pen. Having everything on the one item seems just too strong and it would become a 'every caster gets this' item.
I guess the problem I'm having is the lack of base items to build something off of. For me, an ideal version of the abilities would just be:

UNIQUE passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by x%
UNIQUE passive: Your magical spells penetrate y% of your target's mana resisitance, and return z% of the damage dealt as mana.

without any extra stats, but does it make sense for stats to just dissapear?


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HowlingKommando

Senior Member

09-26-2009

Here are some ideas.

Low Tier

Witch Wand
12% Magic Penetration
450 gold

Recipes
Sinister Branch (1135 g)
Witch Wand (450 g) + Amplifying Tome (435 g) + 250 g
15% Magic Penetration
24 AP
UNIQUE Passive: Physical attacks reduce enemy's magic resistance by 2 for 5 seconds. Cap of 10 MR reduction.

Arm of the Necromancer (1025 g)
Witch Wand (450 g) + Regrowth Pendant (475 g) + 100 g
20% Magic Penetration
20 HP / 5 sec
UNIQUE Passive: Upon killing a champion gain 10% Movement speed for 3 seconds.

Sacrament of Shadow (3000 g)
Arm of the Necromancer (1025 g) + Spirit Visage (1375 g) + 600 g
+40% Magic Penetration
+40 Magic Resistance
+40 HP / 5 sec
UNIQUE Passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 25%
UNIQUE Passive: Reduces Time Dead by 15%.


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Wana

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Member

09-26-2009

^Like the idea of base magic penetration item.


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Malystryx

Senior Member

09-26-2009

I wouldn't mind seeing an item like:

500 HP
350 MP
70 AP
60 Armor
Unique: Aura that spells penetrate 40% of target's Magic Resist.
Unique: 25% CD Reduction

Just my thoughts. That could easily be broken down into 2 Tiers.


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PiousFlea

The Council

09-26-2009

Percent spell pen HAS TO BE UNIQUE, IT CANNOT STACK. Spell penetration has naturally ascending returns and any stacking of percent pen would be incredibly overpowered. Stacking flat pen is less of a problem because people can counter it by stacking magic resist.


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Savage

Senior Member

09-26-2009

How would this item stack with Archaic Knowledge?

My understanding is that it would stack multiplicatively, which is where I pulled the 30% number from (that's roughly on par with the 40% AP from Last Whisper when Archaic Knowledge is taken into account).

But really this is more of a concept problem and less of a numbers one. Hence 30 AP or so, 30% Spell Penetration, a few filler stats because there's nothing akin to attack speed or critical strike chance for spells, and a price tag less than 2500 gold.


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Candesce

Member

09-26-2009

Savage - good points.

Also, if it's specifically a counter item - mainly desirable when the other team is stacking MR - it should be a mid tier item. That way, someone can get it in response to the other team stacking MR without having to plan to buy it from the very beginning.