Experiment: Design a Magic Penetration Item

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Rokudan

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The Council

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiusAudley View Post
Omnibus
Amplifying Tome (435g)
Amplifying Tome (435g)
Recipe (450g)
_______________________
Omnibus (1320g)
+50 AP, +20 Magic Penetration




Arcane Curio
Omnibus (1320g)
Sage's Ring (975g)
Mana Manipulator (475g)
Recipe (750g)ish
_______________________
Arcane Curio (3520g)
+60 AP, +500 Mana,
UNIQUE Aura: Restores 10 mana per 5 to nearby Allies.
UNIQUE Passive: Your spells penetrate 25% of the target's magic resistance.

I was thinking of something like that.
However, I was thinking maybe an item like omnibus combines with something like the innervating locket and gives a unique passive -40% magic resist aura or such.


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Evernight

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Realize the Abyssal Scepter is a great magic penetration item for close range casters and those who need AP andMagic Resist.

So to fill the gap we need a magic penetration item that give something other than defense and maybe not even AP? Although, the AP seems to go with the penetration.

So first we need to consider what the ranged casters (Annie, Veigar, Anivia, etc) need, more than close casters who can use abyssmal instead (Karthas, Fiddle, Morgana, etc)
IMHO, I feel I need more -CD on Anivia and Veigar - Annie even too. So I would put in an item with the magic penetration and -CD

Also - + Mana Regen - Only Arch angels is a top tier caster item with mana regen - RoA, Abyssmal, Rylai, Frozen Heart don't give mana regen. So that is also a consideration.


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Tiranui

Member

09-25-2009

I think it is a great idea to have a mid and late game magic penetration item. As it is, MR is really easy to stack. The null magic mantle gives 25 MR for 400g, the chalice gives 40 MR + its passive. So you can see many people getting at least 40 MR easily and having that nice passive. It is especially useful for champs like Taric, sivir, and fate. I think a flat magic pen item mid game followed by a % based magic pen item with like 50 AP and some cooldown would be nice.

I think the added AP is needed because of how the meta game is going atm. I don't see melee heroes with the last whisper, but we do see loads of people with the black cleaver. The person has to have 160ish armor for you to do as much damage with last whisper as with cleaver. By the time an enemy tank has that much armor... the whisper probably isn't going to win the game for you.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

09-25-2009

My idea would be to remake the Abyssal Scepter into a HP / Magic Res item and have the Aura Stack with itself every three seconds up to a max of 5 times. Would make it a great option on tanks to support allies and battle mages alike.

IE if someone was affected by the aura for 15 seconds they would loose 100 magic resist.


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CF Furyan

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Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronicleX View Post
My idea would be to remake the Abyssal Scepter into a HP / Magic Res item and have the Aura Stack with itself every three seconds up to a max of 5 times. Would make it a great option on tanks to support allies and battle mages alike.

IE if someone was affected by the aura for 15 seconds they would loose 100 magic resist.
Guinsoo made the thread to design a Magic Penetration Item, not change the mechanics of an already existing item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
... we would like to add a new item with Magic Penetration on it, and I'd like to see if you guys have any good ideas for exactly how to implement it....
Thanks,
Guinsoo!
If I'm mistaken please say so.

Let's get some more ideas for MPen items in here guys!


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Cantor

Senior Member

09-25-2009

I haven't given this much thought, but maybe an item that grows over time would be a good way to go. Like say an item that gives 1 magic pen per creep kill that you get while having the item, or one that synergizes with the tear by giving you magic pen per spell cast.


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CF Furyan

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Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
I haven't given this much thought, but maybe an item that grows over time would be a good way to go. Like say an item that gives 1 magic pen per creep kill that you get while having the item, or one that synergizes with the tear by giving you magic pen per spell cast.
I wouldn't do per creep kill, but your idea about the tear seems valid, great in fact.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyan View Post
Guinsoo made the thread to design a Magic Penetration Item, not change the mechanics of an already existing item.
No point me suggesting a stacking magic pen aura when the current non stacking magic pen aura item is around 3K. Get a clue please.


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PiousFlea

The Council

09-25-2009

Here's the main issue affecting our design:

Flat penetration is dramatically more effective on low-MR than high-MR targets. Percent reduction is dramatically more effective on high-MR targets.

Given that most tanks get their Armor up first, and only get MR later in the game, a mid-tier flat spellpen item that builds into a high-tier percent spellpen item would actually be very strong. The flat pen would work better against low-MR guys in midgame, while percent pen strengthens later on. Moreover, if percent spellpen is applied before flat spellpen, there might be an advantage to having both items.

====================
The idea of a spell pen item is to counter tanks, not regular melee or casters. Tanks typically have lower DPS but more stun/silences compared to nontanks. Therefore I think that a high end spellpen item should have anti-stun/silence. NOT anti-snare (this is different from mercury's treads)

A mid end spellpen item would be effective against both tanks and nontanks and could have just about any stats it wanted to have. Spell pen is inherently a VERY offensive stat (it multiplies with AP and is better with a max-AP build) so I don't think it should be paired with too many defensive stats.

Piercing Gaze - 2010g, mid tier
Sapphire Crystal (400 g) + Faerie Charm (180 g) + Blasting Wand (880 g) + 550g
50 AP
250 Mana
5 Mana/5
+20 Spell Penetration

Gaze of the Beholder - 3800g, uber tier
Piercing Gaze (2010 g) + Meki Pendant (390 g) + Null-Magic Mantle (400 g) + 1000g
70 AP
300 Mana
15 Mana/5
25 Magic Resistance
UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your spells penetrate 40% of the target's Magic Resistance.
UNIQUE PASSIVE: Reduces the duration of Stun and Silence effects by 40%.


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CF Furyan

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Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronicleX View Post
No point me suggesting a stacking magic pen aura when the current non stacking magic pen aura item is around 3K. Get a clue please.
I meant no offense by my post, yet you respond with childish insults. The item you're suggesting to change has an already decent, of not great, aura.
Quote:
Abyssal Scepter
+70 Ability Power +60 Magic Resistance
UNIQUE Aura: Reduces nearby enemies' Magic Resistance by 30.
There's no need to change an already decent item.

Finally, I resort back to my original response to your post; Guinsoo wants us to throw ideas in for a NEW magic penetration item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PiousFlea View Post
Here's the main issue affecting our design:

Flat penetration is dramatically more effective on low-MR than high-MR targets. Percent reduction is dramatically more effective on high-MR targets.

Given that most tanks get their Armor up first, and only get MR later in the game, a mid-tier flat spellpen item that builds into a high-tier percent spellpen item would actually be very strong. The flat pen would work better against low-MR guys in midgame, while percent pen strengthens later on. Moreover, if percent spellpen is applied before flat spellpen, there might be an advantage to having both items.

====================
The idea of a spell pen item is to counter tanks, not regular melee or casters. Tanks typically have lower DPS but more stun/silences compared to nontanks. Therefore I think that a high end spellpen item should have anti-stun/silence. NOT anti-snare (this is different from mercury's treads)

A mid end spellpen item would be effective against both tanks and nontanks and could have just about any stats it wanted to have. Spell pen is inherently a VERY offensive stat (it multiplies with AP and is better with a max-AP build) so I don't think it should be paired with too many defensive stats.

Piercing Gaze - 2010g, mid tier
Sapphire Crystal (400 g) + Faerie Charm (180 g) + Blasting Wand (880 g) + 550g
50 AP
250 Mana
5 Mana/5
+20 Spell Penetration

Gaze of the Beholder - 3800g, uber tier
Piercing Gaze (2010 g) + Meki Pendant (390 g) + Null-Magic Mantle (400 g) + 1000g
70 AP
300 Mana
15 Mana/5
25 Magic Resistance
UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your spells penetrate 40% of the target's Magic Resistance.
UNIQUE PASSIVE: Reduces the duration of Stun and Silence effects by 40%.
Great ideas PiousFlea. I especially like the Uber Tier, and your information on Flat vs. Percentage.


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