Dominion Tier List

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Mailius

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Hum, I think your tier list reflects a number of differences in EU player character choice when compared to what US players favor. I was going to question your level of experience after first reading your post and looking up your account but you seem to have answered that satisfactorily.

For instance, I'm not sure if either Ezreal or Zilean are tier 1. In Ezreal's case he simply doesn't have the damage output to successfully 1v1 most other champions even if he can do "okay" with a team, and has a global ult. Rammus will easily win 1v1 against Gangplank or Ezreal (or maybe both simultaneously!). In the case of Zilean, he also doesn't have the damage output to handle people on his point, although because of his slow/haste he is quite annoying to cap a point against with only one person. However compared to Zilean, level 16 Kog is almost impossible to cap against since his ult out-ranges non-globals.

Kat is probably placed too high as well, because essentially every champion can either interrupt her ult, easily get out of range, or just tank it, and without her ult she is useless.

These are just a few examples of discrepancies I've seen with your tier list when compared to my experience in game.


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Zavy

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Senior Member

10-25-2011

One of the best Dominion defenders I've seen played Alistar, and I was wholly impressed. He could defend any point on the map, solo, long enough for us to get there and provide back up. He should definitely be Tier 1 or 2. One of my first games I grouped with a Miss Fortune who was utterly amazing. I'm not sure how but she managed to kite enemies around with Strut without it getting broken (just good player skill and avoidance I guess). That, of course, could have been due to the fact that Dominion was still new... but I was very impressed with her as well.


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Kovas

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Decent guide. Good explanation for sivir placement.

I didn't know Kass could jump platform to lane.

Will try next game.

Bump.


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OxBaker

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Upvoted you more for your effort rather than totally agreeing with your ranking. However it does seem to be pretty accurate overall and you do a good job justifying your choices so good on ya!


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Elealar

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailius View Post
Hum, I think your tier list reflects a number of differences in EU player character choice when compared to what US players favor. I was going to question your level of experience after first reading your post and looking up your account but you seem to have answered that satisfactorily.

For instance, I'm not sure if either Ezreal or Zilean are tier 1. In Ezreal's case he simply doesn't have the damage output to successfully 1v1 most other champions even if he can do "okay" with a team, and has a global ult. Rammus will easily win 1v1 against Gangplank or Ezreal (or maybe both simultaneously!). In the case of Zilean, he also doesn't have the damage output to handle people on his point, although because of his slow/haste he is quite annoying to cap a point against with only one person. However compared to Zilean, level 16 Kog is almost impossible to cap against since his ult out-ranges non-globals.

Kat is probably placed too high as well, because essentially every champion can either interrupt her ult, easily get out of range, or just tank it, and without her ult she is useless.

These are just a few examples of discrepancies I've seen with your tier list when compared to my experience in game.
Well, to first explain my takes on those champs:
Ezreal I find really depends on building damage as efficiently on him as possible. The way I build him is basically max out his damage every step of the way. I start the game with a Brutalizer; I find thanks to Arcane Shift he can afford it without being later for top. This combined with ArPen Reds and Offensive Masteries (I use 21/X/X on him) gives you rather impressive damage for early levels, to the tune of 150 for Q and 100 on auto attack with enough ArPen to go through basically all armor.

After that I rush Sheen as it's the biggest damage increase for its price especially on Mystic Shot and then finally Sanguine Blade (used to get Gunblade instead but everybody knows what happened there instead) and finish Trinity (Phage first obviously; I often build Phage even before Sanguine since the slow tends to be so very valuable). Of course, sometimes I get defensive items at that point instead; some games you just need the Guardian Angel or QSS.

But my point is, I'm pretty sure lots of people build him wrong; some might skip Brutalizer (which is an immense part of his early damage with all, CDR for Mystic Shot, ArPen for Mystic Shot & Auto Attack and Damage for both), get stuff like Prospector's Blade or Manamune (just not a whole lot of damage for the cost), go 9/0/21 (loses out on quite a lot of damage tho it does tho it does offer more CDR), etc. He's my go-to "tryhard" champ for when I wanna win alongside Kassadin; I rarely have trouble 1v1ing any melee champs simply because 1.5 sec CD Mystic Shot adds up to a lot, let alone any squishies.


As for Zilean, well, his job isn't really to kill people 1v1; just damage them enough to force them to base or leave the tower. Level 5 he bursts for 400+1.8 AP tho and caps out at 640+1.8 AP on 9 so his burst early isn't bad, really. Sure, there are champs that do more but none come with a kit nearly as strong as his. He definitely doesn't want to take towers alone from anyone tanky but on defense, he can do enough damage to deter the would-be attackers while never dying.

I'm not sure you really need that amazing damage on this map; I mean, the purpose of killing champs (and as a consequence, damage) is to enable capturing points or to protect points. If a champ is too low to keep attacking or defending, surely the purpose is accomplished even if the champ didn't die. His real advantage is of course the Revive and the Speed Boost. Now, everybody knows the value of being in the right place at the right time and being able to boost yourself and one ally for 55% is just insane. And of course, the Revive having such an obscenely short cooldown is really, really disruptive; attack a point with at least one ally, if the odds are even you'll probably win with easily since you're effectively fighting a 3v2. And if you're defending a point, alone or with allies, Revive not only means they need to kill the defender twice but there's also a ~2-3 sec delay between the death and revival; just short enough that they can't start channeling but long enough that they waste a couple of seconds of capturing time. The fact that he can do it all the time is what I find really pushes it over the edge.

Most ultimates have rather long cooldowns and the shorter ones are generally lower impact but this? Huge impact ultimate on a negligible cooldown! It's like once/fight level cooldown. And again, his passive gives significant early advantage due to the global XP gain that starts already during the 1:20 wait period. The level it can provide can easily skew the opening fights your way.


Katarina I had on 3 for the longest time but every time I actually see one, it seems like she just keeps performing; enemies might blow the CC on someone else or she might get CCd but as people die refreshes her ulti CD and goes at it almost immediately again... I dunno. She just seems to perform better than she has any business doing.

I'm going to need a third opinion and some more material on this; I really feel she should be tier 3 but every time I actually see her she performs extremely well so I can't really just say "Well, my gut says she's 3, so she's 3."


As for Kog being 2, the only reason I don't put him in 1 is because if somebody jumps on him, he's in big trouble. Like Irelia or Nocturne or Wukong or Xin or Akali or Talon or Kassadin; he has a real hard time re-establishing distance after a close-in ability, and most champs who can close in on him can also kill him in the close range fights. His ult is great and his stand-up fighting is great but he's inherently slowish and has no mobility-related skills.

And Rammus...well yeah, he can do really well against physical champions (tho the GP I placed tier 1 is Tanky DPS GP; if GP builds straight glass cannon, he's Tier 2 at best IMHO). But GP can break the taunt with his Taunt and wait out Defensive Ball Curl before really getting to work on Rammus. Ezreal is fine if he has QSS or some MR to survive the Taunt; once he can Arcane Shift away (Rammus and Fiddle are the two biggest "build QSS"-signs for me alongside the obvious), Powerball is probably still down so he should be able to spam attacks to apply Phage proc on Rammus and really lay the hurt on him. Around Points he definitely should be quite strong against Rammus; in the jungle Rammus might be able to take him down but this definitely depends on the exact builds and the phase of the game. And again, Rammus does significantly less well against e.g. Rumble, Gragas, Jax, Akali, Kassadin or in general, magic damage dealers. While he can certainly stack MR too, that doesn't benefit him offensively, and against a mixed team, he's obviously forced to be quite a bit less tanky against either in favor of being tanky against both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zavy View Post
One of the best Dominion defenders I've seen played Alistar, and I was wholly impressed. He could defend any point on the map, solo, long enough for us to get there and provide back up. He should definitely be Tier 1 or 2. One of my first games I grouped with a Miss Fortune who was utterly amazing. I'm not sure how but she managed to kite enemies around with Strut without it getting broken (just good player skill and avoidance I guess). That, of course, could have been due to the fact that Dominion was still new... but I was very impressed with her as well.
Well, people were wrecking with Ashe when Dominion was new. I don't really think that's worth much far as value considerations go now. Back before people realized you can still farm, and the structure of the map, you could kinda do anything and win.

That said, Alistar; yeah, he might belong on Tier 2 as he is pretty darn hard to move. He has lots of CC, he hurts quite a bit and he's really tanky inherently, but his cooldowns are problematic, I feel. He really does a lot when his stuff is up but his Q and W both have longish cooldowns. I feel he does perform worse against teams heavy on ranged types tho and great against melees which would suggest 3 to me. He's one of those "on-the-fence" types for me; others being LeBlanc, Katarina, Cho, Corki, Malz, Olaf, Urgot & Wukong, Maokai & Warwick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OxBaker View Post
Upvoted you more for your effort rather than totally agreeing with your ranking. However it does seem to be pretty accurate overall and you do a good job justifying your choices so good on ya!
They're probably too subjective and there are simply too many champions for two people to ever completely agree on anything but hard numbers on something like this; as such, I'm not terribly surprised. Even I'm not completely happy with all placements but since I wanted to be comprehensive, I included all pre-Xerath champs anyways. Thanks for not accusing me of not being an omniscient god. :P


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Mailius

Senior Member

10-25-2011

When Ezreal procs phage it is quite annoying, but it's somewhat unreliable. I have seen some Ezreals do well, but not often enough, and not on the enemy team that I feel like I he deserves a tier one spot. Going to play a game with him now and see if I change my mind =p

My concern with damage output and killing people is that in a 1v1 situation, often it ends with one person dying rather than someone backing off and going to heal. Particularly when I'm defending I prefer to kill because it means I have a chance to go heal without that person pressuring the point.

I can certainly agree that Kat's ult has a good impact for a short cooldown, but there are a number of heroes such a Lux and Blitzcrank that have shorter CD ults typically that are as useful as Death Lotus (although they don't quite have the raw damage).


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Elealar

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Ezreal is one champion where my own experiences with him are just so decisive I'd be hardpressed to move him unless I suddenly began losing with him or something. Every game I play against Ezreal seems to be a huge uphill battle unless I score Kassadin/Akali as a counterpick, and every time I play Ezreal I seem to just plain win the game with little effort. I dunno; having the double set of "auto attacks", a repositioning skill, massive range & ASpd steroid just feels unfair.

Does anyone have lots of experiences with the post-buff Skarner? I've unfortunately seen very little of him and the few Skarner-players I have seen were pretty mediocre so I can't say I've got much of a clue of what he can actually do; is he still kind of a do-nothing with his ulti-peel as his only worthwhile ability or does the Tanky DPS half add up to something now?


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Stimuz

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Quote:
As for Kog being 2, the only reason I don't put him in 1 is because if somebody jumps on him, he's in big trouble. Like Irelia or Nocturne or Wukong or Xin or Akali or Talon or Kassadin; he has a real hard time re-establishing distance after a close-in ability, and most champs who can close in on him can also kill him in the close range fights. His ult is great and his stand-up fighting is great but he's inherently slowish and has no mobility-related skills.
Kog is one of the only "AD" carries that has a large number of viable builds. He can go full ASPD on hit which is a really inexpensive build to 6-item, standard AD carry and I've also seen him built atmas/mallet where he had almost 3k hp and still facerolled. Tier 1 no matter how you look at it. A skilled AP kog can also destroy. Seen one with 500 AP who could burst 1300+ easy with q+e+r. Let's not forget his passive and how powerful it is in the windmill fight and any other close team fight after.


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ArymanX

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Senior Member

10-25-2011

meh thread...so innacurate


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Lieuu

Junior Member

10-26-2011

This reminds me of waaay back when NA laughed the claim of janna+ezreal tier 1 out of the room. Exact same kind of responses. Exact same practical success ingame and reasoned arguments/new insight by post.

Large groups (like a chunk of the playerbase) always takes a long time to be receptive to new ideas. When there are high elo streams, we'll see what happens to popular opinion