[Guide] Bull-dozing with Alistar

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Doctor Awesome

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by QUICKSLIDE View Post
I play Allistar as a wrecking ball as well. So I have a question for you.

Im always undecided between Tear and Chalice. You make a good point about Tear, its a great item. But the phenomenal regeneration that chalices provides can not be ignored. A large mana bar is good for pulling off your combo, but I often find that I am continually using skills. When I take tear, while I can combo my skills, I find I rarely actually have the mana to do this. More importantly, Chaclice, with its immense regen when you are low on mana, nearly guarantees you have that clutch heal or headbutt to make an escape or to save a teammate.

So, why take tear over chalice? Isnt being able to actually use your skills more important then being able to combo once, maybe twice and deal with slower regen.

Cheers
I've struggled with this exact problem many times, and the reason I ultimately said Tear is, Alistar's abilities are disproportionately expensive compared to the size of his pool--it's not how fast he gets it back that's the problem, but how much he needs all at once. Pulverize and Headbutt are so effective together, it's almost a waste to not use them in the one-two, which pretty much means you always are looking for some 200 mana, right now, to begin an attack. Chalice is great for long-term laning, and when spamming Roar and only Roar was the way Alistar was played, Chalice would have been the right choice. But, this build tends to focus on the far more expensive one-two, requiring high mana investment in very short time, at which point extreme regen still won't be enough--for that, it needs the vast mana stores the Tear can deliver a little better.

In regards to Sheen, I can't believe I didn't think of that. I think I'll test using that, possibly selling the Tear after its buff is capped and we have an Atma's Impaler. Brilliant idea redit!

(Can someone confirm for me that the Tear's bonus lasts after you sell it?)


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Lima Beans

Core Engineer

09-25-2009
1 of 1 Riot Posts

I usually get sheen first on alistar. he needs the early mana pool buff. and it really lets him get a lot of early game kills.


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Slide

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Well thats just it. I can still combo if I buy chalice. I cant repeat combo, but as you said, the 1-2 punch is so deadly if performed correctly, I generally dont need to do it again.

So keeping in mind that with Chalice you can still combo, but more importantly almost always have the mana to do it, seems alike a better choice. Maybe I spam Roar too much, but I find it incredibly important to get to towers with larger creep waves. I seem to take them down faster when I do this. Also, while minor, chalice costs a little less.

If you sell tear, you lose the bonus mana. Ive watched it happen to me and was very dissapointed, but it makes sense. Would be a little too powerful otherwise.

Sheen is a great idea. Ive had the exact same thing on my mind. It would be PHENOMINAL when you get to a tower with a nice creep wave while spamming Roar to keep them alive. Should add up to phenominal damage. Definately deserves more testing to see if it can be done first as Lima said. Or rather that its more effective then tear or chalice.


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Meta

Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lima Beans View Post
I usually get sheen first on alistar. he needs the early mana pool buff. and it really lets him get a lot of early game kills.
I always preferred Tear of the Goddess on him to get his mana pool huge right off the bat. However, I also haven't played him since the tear nerfs. I'll have to try a sheen on him sometime.


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Doctor Awesome

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Well, I suppose I have some testing to do... Perhaps the chalice will reign supreme, or Sheen's meager bonus will be enough to take advantage of superior firepower... I can't wait to get home!


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Jar

Junior Member

09-25-2009

Now I know how much you love your shielding runes Doctor Awesome (many a discussion at Taco Hell was had over this), but here is an idea: go with the chalice over the tear, and drop the shielding glyphs in favor of clarity glyphs. At level 6, both types of runes give 5.4 of their respective stat: a paltry amount of magic resist, but a reasonable amount of mana regen (more than a tear's worth, actually.)

Note that the following numbers do not include natural mana regen, mana, or MR.
Chalice + Clarity glyphs @ level 6:
12.9-25.8 mana/5sec (depending on current MP)
48.64 MR (40 from chalice + 8.64 from shielding seals)
No additional mana

Tear + Shielding Glyphs @ level 6:
5 MP/5sec
14.04 MR
350-950 additional mana (at level 6, probably closer to 450)

If performing the "one-two" is as taxing as you say, then a player can reasonably assume that he will spend most of his time in the upper 50% of chalice's mana regen range. With the Tear, you can deliver the one-two more times from a full mana bar, but once you are spent, you have little choice but to recall. If you run out of mana right before a big enemy push, your team will have to defend without you. However, with the chalice, you can stay and fight knowing that your one-two will be up in no time. That kind of constant presence can be intimidating in and of iteself: if an Alistar I thought was spent 10 seconds ago was suddenly headbutting me into his tower, I would quickly learn not to underestimate a tired bull.


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Shillen

Senior Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Try to lane with another disabler, like Morgana, Ryze, Taric, etc. Singe or Blitzcrank are ideal partners; Fling and Rocket Grab, respectively, are absolutely lethal when combined with your "one-two"--let them get the enemy to you, headbutt them back, then stun them where they land--if they were closer than halfway down the lane, that's probably in turret range, and probably a kill.
Only a bad player is going to let an Alistar walk around behind them. (edit: I guess if you flash behind them it would work.) The only way to get a good player with this is to lead with pulverize, then headbutt. Sure, the tower won't kill them unless they're low health but even 2 hits from the tower should be enough to kill him if you have a lane partner. I like to use ghost, then run really fast into them (through the creeps), pulverize, then headbutt. Even someone watching for this won't be able to do anything about it.

I also disagree on move 3 boots. Combined with ghost, being able to catch up to fleeing opponents and punt them back to your team often is the difference between them escaping and dying.

And as I said in another guide ghost >>> flash for him. Flash is a one-time deal with a longer cooldown. Ghost lasts the entire team fight most of the time, allowing you to run through creeps/enemies to get to people and pulverize/headbutt them.


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davemaister

Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by redit View Post
If you're all about intimidation with your "one-two" (Pulverize and Headbutt) you might want to consider going for Sheen as well.
I agree with this a lot and instead of frozen mallet maybe turn the sheen into trinity instead? make the build order like this
1)Tear
2)Boots of choice
3)sheen(phage if tanking is needed sooner)
4)Atmas
5)Phage(sheen if u got phage first)
6)trinity
7)Fill with dmg/tanking items infinity/tiamat or maybe ias/dmg items?

Also i think ghost is more viable than flash since it is a shorter cooldown and even shorter since it is reachable by a 0/21/9 mastery


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The Senate

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Senior Member

09-25-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lima Beans View Post
I usually get sheen first on alistar. he needs the early mana pool buff. and it really lets him get a lot of early game kills.
OH MAN, i love you. I was playing Alistar a couple days ago with an absolutely terrible team and EVERYBODY started flaming me for getting sheen.

I tried to explain that it's damage stacked with Alistar's increased damage on buildings, but their noobery was just too great.


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Jpeg

Senior Member

09-25-2009

i would suggest going with tear, and when you have mana problems has an ally help you get golem buff.

on the guilde. i've always thought you knew what you where doing so i'll trust it works. but i'm skeptical of going atama's with no HP items and slow att spd. i guess i'll just have to try it sometime.


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