Catalyst -> Banshee's is amazing on Ashe

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darkchair

Member

06-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalis View Post
Without banshees -> you were stunned and taunted at the beginning of the team fight, gg.

With banshees -> you were stunned but it was absorbed by banshees, for half a second you get to flash out or ghost or have better team peels before you get anally raped.
Ashe doesn't need to put herself into a position to be initiated on.

1. Because she's ranged

2. Cause she initiates from a distance, GLOBALLY

She's not the Jax that gets focused.
So she don't need CC protection as much.

You are sacrificing Damage for Survivability, but the Survivability isn't important.


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Karthage

Senior Member

06-17-2010

Sounds like you guys just need to get on dirkzy's level.

If being rich is bad for my health
Than baby im goin be ill forever
And im known to make ladies melt
U boys better GET ON MY LEVEL


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FortuitusFortune

Master Recruiter

06-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkchair View Post
Ashe doesn't need to put herself into a position to be initiated on.

1. Because she's ranged

2. Cause she initiates from a distance, GLOBALLY

She's not the Jax that gets focused.
So she don't need CC protection as much.

You are sacrificing Damage for Survivability, but the Survivability isn't important.
1. Because she ranged doesn't mean she can't get initiated on with ambushes

2. As far as I know map/team/enemy awareness isn't always accurate.

She isn't jax but leaving either alone for a long period of time will result in team death so if you're the more squishy version they could just roll you in 1 cc while they cc jax.

1 item in the grand scheme of 6 is a lot but you should pick up enough assists from ults and team volleys with the extra mana to help with the cost.


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darkchair

Member

06-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalis View Post
1. Because she ranged doesn't mean she can't get initiated on with ambushes
Everyone dies when they get initiated from the bushes. I don't see how one Banshee on you is going to get you out of a situation like that.

I don't get what you are saying for #2, but what I'm saying is
when ganking comes around, she lets the big boys go first, throws out the ult when it's time, and then does her thing.
No need to put her into danger.


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Karthage

Senior Member

06-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalis View Post
1. Because she ranged doesn't mean she can't get initiated on with ambushes

2. As far as I know map/team/enemy awareness isn't always accurate.
1. Solution: don't walk into ambushes. Anyone either ranged or melee can get initiated on from an ambush but that isn't an excuse to do a worse job as a carry by rushing a survivability item instead of the damage that your team needs you for.

2. Thats a problem with you or your team's communication, not the champion or the items.


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AnyOtherEnemy

Senior Member

06-17-2010

Catalyst is one of the most effective "regen" item in the game (think of leveling up every so many minutes.. divide your healing by that time.. that's the regen).

On average it gives about 12-13 HP/5 and MP/5. Not to mention the flat HP/MP. For its price, it's ridiculously good.

e.g. even if you don't upgrade it to banshee's, it's well worth having.

For those arguing about whether to "rush" catalyst, try doing this:

1st trip - boots+pickaxe+sapphire
2nd trip - upgrade boots, catalyst

Getting pickaxe before catalyst is a good idea, IMO. Your ability to last hit will increase, which will offset the cost of catalyst.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

06-17-2010

Now I'm confused as to how a 1.4:1.0:1.8 K:D:A (or an average of 7/5/9 if you prefer) became a "pro" level of play for a ranged champion.

Especially when talking trash about a survivability item.

Get big son, your arms are short.


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Cyst

Member

06-17-2010

Seriously YOU ALL ARE MORONS (can see the lvl 10 noobs already down voting cause i insulted their lack of knowledge)


This isn't WoW... THIS IS A DOTA CLONE ... EACH HERO PLAYS A SPECIFIC ROLE

Ash is as the same as Archna in hon ability to kite enemies with q (ironic both same skill key)
Archna has w as magic res and snare removal
Ash has a multi target Forsaken Archer like skill (volley)
Archan throws a spider that snares enemys MORE (stackable slows)and does dmg over time
Ash has a stun

BOTH HEROS ARE CARRYS (Archna better considering his e increases in AOE all allied range damage)


You same noobs that think getting catalyst on Ash is good idea think there is something called a TANK in this game... THIS IS NOT WoW

The initiators JOB is to get in and disrupt team fights
The carrys JOB is to get in and TAKE OUT HEROS
The supports JOB is to get in and DISABLE key enemys (usually carrys)
The babysitters JOB is to ensure the carry gets a decent farm/early game

Imitators are heros LIKE Amumu / Alistar / Shen I personally do not call Cho a initiator or at least good one
Carrys are heros LIKE ASH / TRIST / Oalf / Twitch
Support is heros LIKE Jax / Kassadin / Cho / Annie / Anvia ect
Babysitter is heros like Sorka / Pantheon / (ANY hero with strong early weak late that can babysit carry in lane instead of mid , if the carry is a weak lane hero that won't be in mid)

this is not WoW how many times must I repeat that... THERE IS NO TANK ... half you kids in here alone refer to initiator as tank THAT DRIVES ME NUTS this is not WoW!!!!!!

Ash needs survivability SURE! But worst first items to get is ANY NON DAMAGE ITEM
Ash needs her core ASAP! for mid phase fights

Ash has no damage boosting abilities q only slows ... w is a tiny aoe nuke ... SHE NEEDS THE DMG ASAP
boots - > BF -> <Life steal item>... THERE IS HER CORE ANYTHING ELSE IS A LUXARY ITEM

You want to get a item that makes her useless except as a SUPPORT mid game by time you farm that catalyst all players will be 6 - 10


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EchoRex

Senior Member

06-17-2010

Yes. Because getting skull ****ed by anyone that closes (and yes, if you're not playing completely and terribly mismatched opponents, they are going to close) is the path to victory.

Here's the hint: If they're in your range, you're going to be in their range. Not everyone, or even the majority, plays a no ranged CC melee champion that you can kite. Your team is not going to be able to keep them off the 1800 hp Ashe who dies in four auto attacks or one spell rotation.

God its so ridiculous seeing all of the idiots who think a pure Carry build can somehow work against competitive players.

EDIT: And comparing it to the DotA champions is laughable, the itemization is so vastly different to make the two games completely different in what works and what doesn't work even when using the same ability themes for champions.


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Omnicis

Senior Member

06-17-2010

tbh, get movespeed quints, mana regen seals cleanse and start game with vampiric scepter.
when i do this my build tends to go
vamp.
bf
boots
zeal
PD
IE
blood thirster
upgrade boots
another phantom dancer.
games over.

your damage output is ridiculous, and so is your survivability with your lifesteal.
you can spam volley as much as you want, and it does more damage than any catalyst build.


im not saying catalyst builds are dumb, im just saying that you need to second guess yourself when you make ultamatums like "ITS TEH BEST EVER"
a friend of mine has mana regen seals, and utility mastery tree, and starts with longsword and pots.
he spams volley every time its up. i have played over 60 games with him, and i have yet to see him not kill the mid opposition more than they kill him unless they are annie or kat.
he absolutely dominates other ashes.

he used to go catalyst ashe, but he changed to that build because he felt it was better.


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