Dominion sympathizes for losing teams. Rubberbanding, artificial "close games", etc.

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jadelink

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Bear in mind that you do also get swings due to the champs picked. If we have otherwise identical teams, but we have Jax and they have Leblanc, then early game favours LB and late game Jax, due to the scaling on gear. Often you can see a stronger early game team vs a stronger late game team in the loading screen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ExtremeTacobeast

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

10-13-2011

Why not remove all modifications to respawn timers and just have an unbiased, flat, respawn timer to allow for fair competitive play?

Or at least release the actual logic/code behind the respawn timer so we can theorycraft the proper ways to min/max in dominion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Necks

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeTacobeast View Post
Why not remove all modifications to respawn timers and just have an unbiased, flat, respawn timer to allow for fair competitive play?

Or at least release the actual logic/code behind the respawn timer so we can theorycraft the proper ways to min/max in dominion.
Hyper carry = lawl early game, "I explode everything in sight" late game (if fed on Summoner's Rift, ....if simply connected to the game on Dominion)



Riot developers are afraid that bad gameplay early on will be punished too heavily, and so they created a system that babysits losing teams. This same system also unfairly supports hyper carry champions more than others. Hyper carries like Jax and Akali, who scale off of items, are automatically spoon-fed end-game items and max levels without having to do anything. A Jax or Akali can die 15 times and get shut down at every capture point. Then, the system says "Here, have this gunblade. Here, have another gunblade" and rewards them with late-game items and maximum levels, EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT.

Instead of relying on player skill and teamwork to pull themselves back into the game, the system actually puts its hand under the losing team's arse, and artificially pushes them back up with the modification of respawn timers, protecting them from Nexus point loss by champion deaths, etc. This is supposed to be a PVP game. Why do I feel like Riot is stepping into the middle of my match and intervening with these babysitting mechanics and rubberband sympathy for losing teams?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Seņor Pancho

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Quote:
Why do I feel like Riot is stepping into the middle of my match and intervening with these babysitting mechanics and rubberband sympathy for losing teams?
because it counters the "stomp or get stomped" gameplay in favor of more exciting games:

you win the first 8 min with a decent lead, start losing at around 15-16 min (respawn timers against you) and eventually retake control of the game and win at 21 min (respawn timers favoring you) this is a typical dominion game for me, and it's almost always uncertain who will win.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

InciSion

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Why do people complain about dominion if they dont like it.. i mean why don't you just NOT play it... honestly...is it that difficult?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hehaw

Junior Member

10-14-2011

The stomp games aren't the problem; if you're winning 400-100, you're generally going to win unless you screw up royally.

However, its the close games that this "comeback mechanic" breaks. If the game is close, all it takes is the team that is slightly behind to use the respawn advantage to take the third point when the game is almost over, making it virtually impossible for the "winning" team to retake a point before it is over just due to turtling. I've been in quite a few games (on both the winning and losing side) that were very close the entire game, but the team that should have lost used the respawn advantage to just barely zerg a third point right before the game ends.

If, for example, the game is 3-2 blue-purple, blue has 50 points and purple has 25, purple has a respawn advantage (and possibly a quest active). If purple manages to use that advantage to take the third point, they will CONTINUE to have the respawn advantage until blue is under 25. At this point, it is virtually impossible for blue to win if the skill levels on both sides are close, because purple's advantage doesn't go away until there are too few points for blue to catch up on an even playing field. It is just bad mechanics for competitive games, as it gives the slightly worse team a significant advantage, for being worse.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redtah

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidget View Post
Other way around. Summoner's Rift babysits the winning team. Early play superiority in Summoner's Rift transfers to a huge mechanics advantage in the late-game. Dominion doesn't have a lot of strong comeback mechanics, it just lacks the snowball mechanics of Summoner's Rift.

I understand that you're thinking of SR as the 'default', but SR is an inherently snowbally gametype. Dominion's comeback mechanics aren't particularly game-changing, it just feels like they are because you're used to being twice as strong as the other team once you've built up an early advantage.
I actually kind of have to agree with this guy. Do well early game? leads to a good mid game leads to a great end game? Did you pick a half decent team? If you checked yes you've just secured yourself a win.

I honestly haven't played SR since dominion came out. Why? I'm sick of soul crushing hour long defeats. Someone on your team doesn't play extremely well in the first 10 minutes of the game? Probably is over unless the enemy team messes up big time or you have kogmaw on your team.

Also since SR is the "default" game mode why oh lord why are atleast 70% of the champions in the game completely unviable or completely outclassed?

In dominion you can **** near pick any 5 champions and actually have a chance of winning its great sure there are a few who need to be banned because they are stupid awesome *coughcaniget3bansperteamalreadycough*


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redtah

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
Hyper carry = lawl early game, "I explode everything in sight" late game (if fed on Summoner's Rift, ....if simply connected to the game on Dominion)



Riot developers are afraid that bad gameplay early on will be punished too heavily, and so they created a system that babysits losing teams. This same system also unfairly supports hyper carry champions more than others. Hyper carries like Jax and Akali, who scale off of items, are automatically spoon-fed end-game items and max levels without having to do anything. A Jax or Akali can die 15 times and get shut down at every capture point. Then, the system says "Here, have this gunblade. Here, have another gunblade" and rewards them with late-game items and maximum levels, EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT.

So the real problem is, we just need more bans to stop these dumb hyper carrys and not the mechanic is basically what your saying.

Pretty silly that each team doesn't get 3/4 bans already with the sheer number of champions.

Basically unless a team is picked to counter a hypercarry like jax/akali/kogmaw (not sure you can really counter a kogmaw unless they are bad) Your probably going to lose to them.

Me and my circle of friends have won a handful of games because we get jax or akali or kogmaw.

We also have lost a handful of games because people pick pantheon or shaco who fall off HARD late game.

Team comp does still matter so does skill basically the only problem with dominion is these hypercarrys can become gods lategame without doing anything.

Solution? Allow more bans already the way I see it each team needs ATLEAST 3 bans if not 4. Jax Akali Kogmaw Kassadin Karthus basically all need to be banned for sure. Shaco Talon people with high mobility like Rammus/singed/teemo are all super annoying but IMO not ban worthy if you have half a brain.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jadarok

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Quote:
A Jax or Akali can die 15 times and get shut down at every capture point. Then, the system says "Here, have this gunblade. Here, have another gunblade" and rewards them with late-game items and maximum levels, EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT.
Sorry...if Jax died 15 times early game. the other team will have more gold, will have more map control, and will be overall winning more. You can't really get "fed" like you can in SR, but saying there is no consequences to dying 15 times in a GOOD game, you are wrong.

You keep saying they are given things they don't deserve? What? I got news for you. EVERYONE gets that same gold Jax did. Everyone can get this "free" Gunblades you are talking about. But since Jax died 15 times, he is actually getting a little less.

What you are really trying to say is "Waaahh, Jax is OP!!!!!"...that's all this is really. There is nothing that rewards losers in this game, everything you say is flat out wrong. What you have an issue with is champions that were balanced for a game type where it is possible to shut down their ability to be stronger late game by denying farm, the Carry. While I'll admit some aspects of the carry class have an advantage in Dominion, it's not game breaking...why? Lots of reasons. Bans, counter-picks, good team comp, both teams can field Carries, easier to counter-build with steady incomes, etc.

It's not "rewarding" if the winners are getting the exact same thing. A true "rubber-band" mechanic would be...every time you die, you get 500 gold bonus. Or if your team gets Aced, and random champ on the enemy team instantly dies. What you want is a team to be punished MORE for losing. You just have this SR snowball mentality.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Skaed

Senior Member

10-14-2011

I think generally the main reason losing teams come back so frequently is the winning team is low on HP from the fights, spread out trying to control 3-4 points instead of 2, and may not have had a chance to go back for items. After a wipe, the losers can come back out with all 5 ready to go, and often take some points back. It's like when teams push towers for too long in SR after an ace, and end up giving up their advantage.