Dominion sympathizes for losing teams. Rubberbanding, artificial "close games", etc.

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Hobocop

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Senior Member

10-15-2011

It's only obvious to you because you don't know what's going on. I can pull up every single replay where there has been a huge comeback, and in the vast majority of them, the winning team will have made a mistake somewhere to allow for the comeback in the first place.

If you really think I don't play Dominion, you should check my match history. I haven't played anything but Dominion since it came out.


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

10-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skataki View Post
some times you just need to sit back and defend your 3 points. going out for 4 points could end in you losing your lead
i have lost several games by doing this

if you are smart, the shorter respawn timers for the losing team can't help them

SR has it's ways of punishing winning teams that do not defend their lead intelligently as well


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Jadarok

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10-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouVertica View Post
:/ you don't play dominion then. Losing game after game up by 300+, its not possible for groups of random ppl time after time to win down by 4x the effort.

Playing AB, halo, Cod, pretty much any dominin variant, its obvious this one has rubberbanding when groups of random people can make a "comeback" again and again and again.

You don't see that with other games because they don't mess with the system.
There is a reckless style of play that works early game. That same style will lose the game for you late game. If you really believe in the game making losers win. Start throwing your games and go on a winning streak if you think you have it figured out. If you don't hold 3 points all game, you lose. Simple. If you try to hold 4+, and do ok with that, but then you try to keep it up late game and get aced...well there goes your lead.

Plus if you describe the exact mechanics of those previous multiplayer games you mentioned, you will realize that aren't exactly the same, nor should the just apply to this League of Legends map for the heck of it.


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BurntWalrus

Senior Member

10-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadarok View Post
There is a reckless style of play that works early game. That same style will lose the game for you late game. If you really believe in the game making losers win. Start throwing your games and go on a winning streak if you think you have it figured out. If you don't hold 3 points all game, you lose. Simple. If you try to hold 4+, and do ok with that, but then you try to keep it up late game and get aced...well there goes your lead.

Plus if you describe the exact mechanics of those previous multiplayer games you mentioned, you will realize that aren't exactly the same, nor should the just apply to this League of Legends map for the heck of it.
300 points winning is not "early game". Why people continue to complain is that they lose constantly when up by a massive amount. One game, sure. But any more added to that is ridiculous.

And they aren't the exact same, no, but they are all domination/territories variants.


Hey, its a fun game type, but riot shouldn't lend a hand to losing teams. Ever wonder why dominion has no real competitiveness? Because people give up when they are ahead 300 points and lose mutiple times in a row.

-.- even WoW's Athrali Basin didn't give a hand to losers, and thats the most mainstream game possible.


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Jadarok

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10-16-2011

Quote:
300 points winning is not "early game". Why people continue to complain is that they lose constantly when up by a massive amount. One game, sure. But any more added to that is ridiculous.
That's because people don't get how this game works yet. It's a simple concept, but your average pug does it wrong. When I'm on a team with 5 players that know the tricks, the game ends 400-0, simple. I never see any kind of mechanic that tries to help the losers out.

When you get to "late game", your tactics have to change. Kills don't count for nexus points, and respawn times are longer. You have to play different. This is not the system helping the losers, it's the winners getting careless and not knowing how to end the game. This is not about rubberbanding mechanics forcing comebacks, it's the lack of snowball mechanics that makes people complacent and screw up their end game. This isn't SR, getting an early lead is just that...a lead. You'll still have to play just has hard in the beginning as you do in the end, no matter how good you've done till that point.


...and please, Arathi Basin is not really a shinning example of balanced and quality PvP. Plus it's a different game, different system. Deaths don't remove(or add) tickets in that mode either. Heck, some on the forums would say that is also bad and needs to be like Battlefield 3 where kills count for tickets till the very end.

Different games, different pacing, different' styles.


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Shini Laser

Senior Member

10-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadarok View Post
Arathi Basin is not really a shinning example of balanced and quality PvP.
And let's not point out how those games are truly over 10 minutes in because if the enemy has 1200 points and you have 700 points, unless you assault a base right within a minute, you lose because they can hand over a base just for lols and then still win.

Then again, some people want that to be the way Riot does it, where you can always do damage via holding a single base, making comebacks pretty much impossible.


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Necks

Senior Member

10-16-2011

The fact of the matter is, the Riot developers admitted themselves that Dominion's early game phase does not feel impactful enough.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwdf1-jESZE#t=6m15s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello
Right now we're seeing a lot of teams get to the 125 to 125 state regardless of the early game actions, and we don't think that's a good differentiation of skill. We think early game should matter, mid game should matter, and late game should matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
it's the system that induces the artificial "close game". It's not the enemy team that's shaping up and getting better with player skill. It's the system
protecting them from the loss of Nexus points by champion deaths,
modification of respawn timers, etc.


Case and point. This is exactly what I have been highlighting throughout this thread, but thick skulled individuals didn't seem to believe me. It's like Galileo trying to tell people something as logical as "The Earth is not the center of the universe!" and then him getting branded as a heretic and condemned to a prison life sentence by the thick skulled peasants of his time.

League of Legends forums...these forums, lawl. :-)


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Valcyclovir

Senior Member

10-16-2011

I like how Necks have so many downvotes on all his posts and people are only trying to tell him how he "miss-phrased" his arguments. In more neutral words :

The system do play a much bigger role in CS compared to SR.

The losing team do get a faster respawn time rate to encourage comebacks.

The quest for WM/mid do favor the losing team (team who doesn't control WM) because the quest is closer to their base.

The 400-100 early lead does not mean it will finish 300-0, but more like 150-0 due to the aforementioned points, most of the time... You might share different views depending on your experience.

Dominion is not perfect yet, and Riot need our feedbacks.


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Miles Long

Senior Member

10-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
This is exactly what I have been highlighting throughout this thread, but thick skulled individuals didn't seem to believe me. It's like Galileo trying to tell people something as logical as "The Earth is not the center of the universe!" and then him getting branded as a heretic and condemned to a prison life sentence by the thick skulled peasants of his time.

League of Legends forums...these forums, lawl. :-)
You're still wrong.

Just because Riot wants all stages of the game to matter doesn't mean they agree with your hilarious misconceptions of "rubberbanding."

You've been whining about how you aren't stomping people just because you bank an early lead. Seems to me like you only care about the early game mattering and dictating the flow of the rest of the game, which Riot obviously does not agree with.

I'll say it again since you clearly don't understand: The system does not babysit the losing team. Riot designed Dominion with comebacks in mind and there is no artificial advantage for losing. Certainly not one that will ever be better than the winning advantage.

Stop trying to perpetuate the idea that losing in Dominion is preferable to winning. We already have the entire stupid community playing SR backwards, we don't need that here too.


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Talistiir

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10-16-2011

The respawn timers are very unforgiving when you are a long way ahead. I've personally seen my own timer at 35 seconds while my opponent had 5 second respawn when we were 300+ points ahead (yes, we won). I know that respawns are often "grouped" when they are within 5-10 seconds, but I do wonder why the losing team gets such a hugely reduced respawn timer. Once their nexus hits 125, they now have license to just throw themselves at your defenders time and again knowing they will respawn almost instantly, and eventually overwhelm the defender, who then faces a long respawn.

And as posted early in the thread, the _REAL_ problem with this mechanic is when scores are low-ish. You can be ahead on the scoreboard but behind on caps. At that point, if 2 or 3 of your team dies, you will probably lose, since your respawn will be much slower than theirs.

It doesn't happen often, but it seems like a needless mechanic for the team that is behind. The grouping of respawns is cool because it promotes small team-fights, what Dom is supposed to be about, but why does the losing team respawn faster?