Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Arbitrary Anti-Snowball Mechanics keep Dominion down

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Colbonious

Member

10-10-2011

Its like being in first place in Mario Kart! Banana.........banana.........3 bananas.......green turtle shell. Meanwhile the guy in last is blasting people with lightning, and gettin super mushrooms.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Karandor

Adjudicator

10-10-2011

The problem is when people stomp early they get overconfident and start tower diving and dying for no gain.

If you stomp early, set-up a good defensive posture and force the enemy to fight in your towers you will win.

It's not the comeback mechanic's fault, it's the fact that people still don't know how to play dominion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ytinasni

Senior Member

10-10-2011

Quote:
Weirding:
What you are probably noticing is champions that have poor early games snowballing into powerful late-game forces and dominating you.

I just played a game on a team of Ryze (me), Jax, Akali, Kassadin, and Trundle. The enemy was Katarina, Irelia, Yorick, Twitch, and Shaco. They were an early-game team, and we were definitely a late-game one. We held them off for about 10 minutes until we built the items we needed then just proceeded to stomp them. Kassadin spent most of his time backdooring points to allow us to neutralize or capture points for a short time early game to stop the bleeding.

The other team complained that they did well early and felt cheated, but the fact is that my team had a strategy in mind (don't get 4 or 5-capped and hang on until mid or late game) and we implemented it.

The fact that the game doesn't "snowball" like Summoner's Rift does allows for these kinds of strategies. I think that this is a good thing.

By the way, I've played nearly 300 games so far. I haven't been in SR since Dominion released.



This, they methods aren't "arbitrary" they are there as a balancing mechanic, because there are champions who have a vastly different power curve that is designed around 30+ min SR games as opposed to the quick 10-20 min dom games. In order to allow for these "hard carries" to make it to the late-game where they are most viable there is a mechanic in place to allow them to overturn a game. There is no such thing as a "total loss" in dominion unless you created it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Warskull

Adjudicator

10-10-2011

Quote:
Tokey I Tink:
I think you're giving too much credit to anti-snowballing.

If you're winning and play smart ie not over pushing, not walking around at low hp, not going into solo fights, you will continue to win and there will be no comeback.

@above poster: five seconds doesn't even capture a point.


The problem is in close games you essentially hand the win over to the weaker team. Say the score is 60/10 with 2/2 caps and the top uncapped. The team that is behind has a much easier time capping top because they respawn faster. When the scores are nearing 0 and the teams are close in skill whoever scores a 3 cap and defends will win. The comeback mechanics are a huge part of the reason you never want to play offensively if you have 3 points, it is just too risky. The enemy respawns much faster.

The key to comeback mechanics feeling good is they can't punish the winner or feel artificial. Riot refuses to publish exactly how the mechanics work because they are afraid people will abuse them. That is a giant red flag that their mechanics are bad, but such is to be expected from Riot.

At the very minimum the comeback bonuses need to cap, around the 200 point mark. When it starts coming down to the wire, giving one team a slight spawn advantage easily translates into giving them a free win in a close game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KalaVedaks

Senior Member

10-10-2011

Disagree


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Talistiir

Member

10-10-2011

It's the situation described above that is the problem, you are ahead on points but behind on caps. You die: respawn time 20 seconds, they die respawn time 5 seconds.

Staying alive when you are ahead is imperative. If that means blue-pilling to heal then so be it. If two or three of you die when you are say 100-50 ahead but 2 caps to their 3, you will lose.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sizmic

Recruiter

10-10-2011

While I agree the Anti Snowball, or more appropriately named comeback, mechanics do need to be turned down a bit I think that they are not as a whole a bad thing. I feel that we should have normalized death timers as in SR but the quest system giving the down team a hand isn't an over the top mechanic and I feel should stay.

Quote:
lbgsloan:
Strongly agreed death timers should be based solely on game time, nothing more. Like the OP, most games of Dominion tend to be very close, yet the rarely START close. It's usually 400-200 or something when the other team starts making a comeback somehow; that somehow being a 1 for 1 trade means the losing player can revive 5-10 seconds sooner than the winning player. Times 5 players, and there's no way to the losing team won't eventually take back a point.

I see now why there's no Dominion ranked mode; the mode was not intended for competitive play.


In response to this I think that the sole reason we do not yet have ranked dominion is for things like this issue. Riot needs time to get feedback on dominion and what bugs and other changes, like the comeback mechanics, need to be made before it is ready for true competitive game play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

coffeerox

Senior Member

10-10-2011

I don't like comeback mechanics. It ruined MvC3 due to X-factor, allowing people who did not deserve to deal massive damage to win the match with a simple button press. If you're losing the game, you deserved to lose because you made mistakes or your team made mistakes. It doesn't make room for actual skill at all. The comeback mechanic is whats giving you the win.

True comebacks happen when players are skilled enough and start outplaying the other players. Give people a chance to mount a true comeback. People should know how to play the game and if not, suffer the loss so that they learn what mistakes they made.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KalastRaven

Senior Member

10-10-2011

Comeback mechanics keep the game interesting. There is nothing worse than a slow, inevitable defeat.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

coffeerox

Senior Member

10-10-2011

Quote:
KalastRaven:
Comeback mechanics keep the game interesting. There is nothing worse than a slow, inevitable defeat.
that's your problem. play the game better. give better directions to your team. Wins shouldn't be handed to you. Is there a comeback mechanic in chess? or Go?