An Expert's Guide to 'Noobs'

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okrichie

Senior Member

06-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothloli Sugar View Post
The precious ratios, as you have so aptly put it, are something that most players care about because it's a visible, tangible indicator of skill. It definitely doesn't reflect the player themselves - this is a given, I'm not stupid and I know this. However, to someone who isn't a friend of that player to know their true skill, they only have their ratios to inspect on. If, in the game, the player's ability is reflective of their ratio, it's only natural they will begin to flame and become angry at them. LoL isn't the only game this occurs in, it occurs in almost every competitive game or team-game with a kill to death ratio.

If you thought LoL had it bad, HoN and DotA have it much, MUCH worse, especially the former. Competitive FPSes also have something fierce going on with ratios (hi TF2). It's deplorable behavior on their part, but this is part of the human nature to be like this and try to be superior over their peers, it is only natural that there are MANY people like this. It's very relieving to see that there are people who are attempting to try and change this demographic, but I fear it's not enough.

Earlier, I had a game where I believed my teammates were pretty nice people, but it was only when we started losing where I found out they were just playing to win and they learned nothing - it didn't help that they entered the battle thinking they could win. Ultimately, regardless of whether you make such things noted or not, it's very hard to say for certain that these guys are gonna stop flaming and being haters.
Awesome reply, I agree and disagree on various points so let's discuss in more detail if you please.

Ratings rating ratings.. I agree they're important to some people, others wont care. You then sometimes get a clash of these two people and a few bruised egos. I feel it's important for each side to respect that while some might care about ratios, others do not. And for those that don't care it doesn't hurt to understand that it matters to others. The only time this will come up as a major concern is in a match made game, and there's not much anyone can do if they don't approve of the MM syste, apart from recoding it and suggesting it as a solution to RIOT.

It's more about personal conduct in the face of these issues than the issues themselves. In many cases the issues are outside of our immediate control. Also you mention the idea that people might only identify one another based on their ratios and observed play within a game. In my book that isn't grounds to start making sweepting generalisations or assumptions.

For example, someone might just be having a bad game. Maybe they're amazing most of the time but they just suck against Katarina and haven't perfected that yet. Maybe they're having a bad day or their finger hurts from playing 10 consecutive games. That's why i stressed that getting all the facts makes a big difference. Telling someone they're terrible because they had a bad day isn't a fair assesment.

I know what you're thinking, if they have a bad ratio and they have a bad game then you can put two and two together. Well normally, yes. but there's a few concieveable possibilities that would account for this. Someone that has a shared account and they didn't want to spend their money unlocking everything on a second account.

Let me make this more human, Timmy is 16 and he's a high ELO player, his mom bought him a few champs and he plays a lot. His little bro Jimmy just turned 13 and sucks at the game because he just started out, but mom wont pay for the campions etc again and Jimmy just LOVES playing the magnificent twisted fate skin! I know it's getting convoluted but you get the point, sometimes things that seem to add up, don't.

Then there's the MM issue. Typically it shouldn't happen that higher ELO players are matched with lower ELO players; it doesn't always seem to work that way but that's out of our control really. But again we don't know all the facts about the ELO system in LoL so it's hard to comment without being subjective.

I know it's a common tie in games like this that people get competitive and care about ratios. I get that and personally have no issue with that. But that's not justification to start being arrogant or insulting other people. Secondly if it gets so far that the ratios matter too much, it might be healthy for people to take a step back and remember that while this might be important, there's still plenty to be grateful for even if you lose a few games. Essentially, people need to let it go sometimes and lighten up.


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Gothloli Sugar

Junior Member

06-28-2010

Oh God walls of text and I'm going to sleep... Let me be succinct, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okrichie View Post
Ratings rating ratings.. I agree they're important to some people, others wont care. You then sometimes get a clash of these two people and a few bruised egos. I feel it's important for each side to respect that while some might care about ratios, others do not. And for those that don't care it doesn't hurt to understand that it matters to others. The only time this will come up as a major concern is in a match made game, and there's not much anyone can do if they don't approve of the MM syste, apart from recoding it and suggesting it as a solution to RIOT.

It's more about personal conduct in the face of these issues than the issues themselves. In many cases the issues are outside of our immediate control. Also you mention the idea that people might only identify one another based on their ratios and observed play within a game. In my book that isn't grounds to start making sweepting generalisations or assumptions.
Yes, I definitely agree that the issues themselves are something beyond our control. I am definitely agreeing with you there; however, there is a certain amount of uncertainty that lies behind the behavior and conduct of other players. As fellow players, while most of us here frown upon such deplorable behavior, it's usually beyond our own control to try and limit such trash-talking. Being just in these situations only serves to fuel the flame even more. I wasn't aiming to make assumptions or sweeping generalizations, I was aiming to make an important point - regardless of what you do about it, these things WILL still happen with some amount of frequency. What we can do is try to minimize it, but with the way human nature works, it will never be fully eradicated.

Quote:
For example, someone might just be having a bad game. Maybe they're amazing most of the time but they just suck against Katarina and haven't perfected that yet. Maybe they're having a bad day or their finger hurts from playing 10 consecutive games. That's why i stressed that getting all the facts makes a big difference. Telling someone they're terrible because they had a bad day isn't a fair assesment.
Okay. That's something I don't think I can dispute. And I never even mentioned this in my original reply.

Quote:
I know what you're thinking, if they have a bad ratio and they have a bad game then you can put two and two together. Well normally, yes. but there's a few concieveable possibilities that would account for this. Someone that has a shared account and they didn't want to spend their money unlocking everything on a second account.

Let me make this more human, Timmy is 16 and he's a high ELO player, his mom bought him a few champs and he plays a lot. His little bro Jimmy just turned 13 and sucks at the game because he just started out, but mom wont pay for the campions etc again and Jimmy just LOVES playing the magnificent twisted fate skin! I know it's getting convoluted but you get the point, sometimes things that seem to add up, don't.
I can see where you're coming from with this example, but I don't know how often such scenarios would come up. You're making a relevant point - in a roundabout sort of way - and I can see where you're getting at, but that derails from the nature of flaming bad play and this is more entering the territory of "justifying a bad game."

Quote:
Then there's the MM issue. Typically it shouldn't happen that higher ELO players are matched with lower ELO players; it doesn't always seem to work that way but that's out of our control really. But again we don't know all the facts about the ELO system in LoL so it's hard to comment without being subjective.

I know it's a common tie in games like this that people get competitive and care about ratios. I get that and personally have no issue with that. But that's not justification to start being arrogant or insulting other people. Secondly if it gets so far that the ratios matter too much, it might be healthy for people to take a step back and remember that while this might be important, there's still plenty to be grateful for even if you lose a few games. Essentially, people need to let it go sometimes and lighten up.
Yeah, that's basically what needs to be done more often.

The point I'm trying to strike up, though, is that this will never truly happen with everyone - there can be many people who take it easy, but there will still be the odd one out somewhere who rages from losing because he cares about his win:loss ratio, or someone raging because he thinks his "teammates are ******ed," (common excuse for losses) etc. Ultimately, while what you're saying is quite correct, I don't see it happening any time soon. That's my take on it.

Now, to catch some z's


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Faytherite

Senior Member

07-21-2010

I have something to add. Please don't hate on your teammates. Particularly not with the other team. It's very demoralizing, and generally just a jerk move. Conversations like " OMG, our Ashe is so awful" WITH the opposing team seems, for some reason a much bigger and more insulting thing to do than simply saying " Ashe, you're terrible, lol.". Better to simply give tips on how to play better. Gosh, I love those. Just something I have noticed. Love your team! Encourage them! Even when the chips are waaaaaayyy down. It's a game. Maybe you can get a laugh out of your loss. I talk too much. Sorry guys.


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Surisis

Senior Member

07-22-2010

Call me a cynic but humility on the internet is a bit of lost cause. I can remember hundreds of times where i tried to say "maybe that item isn't best for...." "Don't go alone it's dangerous..." "Don't go in when it's 1vs3 on FB...."

The responses I get? "**** you mother ****er!", "stfu noob!", "dumb **** you should helped me (when it's 1vs3)" and the ever popular "I'm AFK. you guys can play if you want NOOBS"

So it's a double edged sword in a competitive enviroment. realistically we live and die by the sword in this game and unfortunately anything goes.


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Calbrenar

Senior Member

07-22-2010

The military training technique is only effective because that is ALL you get to experience for X weeks depending on if you were smart (Air Force 6 wks) or something else. Just kidding about the smart thing I'm prior Air Force and we all know the friendly rivalry between AF/Army and AF/Marines lol. The point I'm trying to make is that trying to say that going off on people would work in a game like LoL is ridiculous because they are going to be with you for 1 game then forget about you. You don't have that option in basic training.

I was playing a game last night. I wanted to give Gangplank another try as I had been building crit runes for Tryndamere anyway. So I tried a modified version of Condon's old winplank build and went to town.

I started top lane with Singed and we had some fairly easy early kills despite a nasty Pantheon/Garen combo. Unfortunately we had a Xin bottom and his IRL Udyr friend who was pretty new and really bad.

Xin requested a lane change and I agreed to switch even though I was having a blast top with Singed (who was really good), because there's no point in doing well top if your bottom gets stove in. Soon as I get to the bottom I immediately see that Udyr is bad.

Very bad. He was playing too far forward and when Zilean ran up he'd just stand there. Zilean would bomb him and he'd run back to tower and wait at 20% hp for the bomb to explode. Even better he'd watch as Zil ran forward again and not move and get bombed and then die. He did this around 5 times.

Now I know Zilean can be pretty disconcerting to play against for the first time but I was beside myself. Why are you just standing there what are you doing! Not very constructive at all. Predictably he said what can i do he had me anyway blah blah blah. I killed Zil and Kat once or twice cuz they were being stupid overaggressive from the easy start vs Udyr/Xin and died once or twice myself since it was almost always a 1v2 except I wasn't getting 2x XP cuz Udyr was there.

To make a long story short I stopped unproductively raging at Udyr and asked him to please just go back and heal when he was at low health. Better playing defensively then dead. The rest of the team who was actually pretty good started semi listening to me now that I wasn't raging at the poor noobie. We started winning some team fights despite the other teams advantage. After the second time we got into their base and stayed too long and everyone but me died they started listening to me even more. Suffice to say what was a 3-15 start turned into something like 41-37 win.

I'm willing to bet that if I had not gone off on the guy for what, to be fair, was mind boggling stupidity we probably would have come together a lot sooner.


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Deldrin

Junior Member

07-26-2010

I agree with it all


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fatalfencer

Senior Member

07-26-2010

+1 Mr. Richard.


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This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-26-2010

+1. Everyone should have to read this. Good job, Richard.


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Hector1

Member

07-26-2010

I use the word noob just to vent and I do hope no one takes me seriously


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RunThatBread

Junior Member

01-15-2011

Whereas I agree with this post in regards to low-lvl play...

There is no excuse for making it all the way to lvl 30 and still being bad.

Mind you, some of you are gonna get pissed at that statement, ask me if I care. I rerolled myself because I was bad at lvl 30 (because apparently, playing with good players most of the time will give you the impression that you are good at the game without you realizing that you got carried.), and I'm glad I did. Not only did I make a better effort at learning the detailed mechanics of the game, but I found a champ that I absolutely love (Mundo).

I can't really call out things in-game that led to someone's death in a lane i'm not in unless I'm watching the fight, but generally, I've always tried to give whoever was feeding (or just doing terrible in general) a quick piece of advice on how not to be. I don't have an issue with people making mistakes, it's people making the same mistakes repeatedly (especially going somewhere they just saw someone die SOLO. Bonus points if the map is pinged and a warning is given, and they go solo anyway.), or just people doing stupid **** that you should have learned BEFORE 30 (like a mia call goes out, and someone is SOLO on a tower that's not even close to going down for more than 5 seconds, and that's pushing it. Outside of that, there's no real reason for anyone to get called a noob unless they are playing like one, and refuse to listen (I'm can't jive this "always be nice to everyone" jazz that the OP seems to be on.


edit: derp necro. I really should check these post dates.