Irelia Vs. Cho

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Etherimp

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by missou View Post
What are you talking about? Irelia is one of the best champions for sticking on Cho, with her dash and stun/slow. Competent Irelias will be rushing items like Zerker Greaves/Wit's End/Phage precisely to stick on Cho'Gath. Cho doesn't have to duel? Then what does he do in lane - sit at tower and watch the creeps die? He HAS to go up to CS. Even a full AP Q>W waveclear won't work, simply because it's top lane and Irelia can freeze the lane if Cho decides to push quickly to avoid fighting. Duels will happen without fail when Cho goes to CS, and this is when Irelia dominates him. She'll simply orb-walk past his ruptures and auto him back to his tower.

At Silver Tier like you're currently at, I agree that Cho would beat Irelia, simply because players at 1400 won't have the micro ability to deal with Cho's ruptures. The higher up you go, the more the match tends to swing in Irelia's favor. As a Cho main, by the time I hit the plat/gold barrier, Irelia had become the most common counterpick when I picked Cho.
I'm saying that early in the game, Cho'gath should have no problems farming and holding his own in lane. This is BEFORE Wits End/Phage.. By the time Irelia has Wits End/Phage, Cho should be working on Frozen Heart or another defensive item which counters his lane opponent. Amiright?

I understand what you mean about micro, but I don't see how dashing to Cho'gath and auto-attacking him is not immediately met by a silence/rupture, and then Cho'gath just walks away. Hence "He doesn't have to duel".. If Irelia forces a fight, he CC's her, does more damage than she inflicted, then continues to farm. Cho's cooldowns aren't THAT long and with a Frozen Heart+6 Stacks, he should not be forced out of lane by Irelia too easily, unless ALL she does is auto-attack him instead of farming her own minions.

Keep in mind, most of my experience with Cho'gath has been Jungle, although I have a fair bit of experience with him at Top Lane as well, but last season I got gold from jungling, so I am not sure how the dynamics change above 1500 Elo.


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missou

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
I'm saying that early in the game, Cho'gath should have no problems farming and holding his own in lane. This is BEFORE Wits End/Phage.. By the time Irelia has Wits End/Phage, Cho should be working on Frozen Heart or another defensive item which counters his lane opponent. Amiright?

I understand what you mean about micro, but I don't see how dashing to Cho'gath and auto-attacking him is not immediately met by a silence/rupture, and then Cho'gath just walks away. Hence "He doesn't have to duel".. If Irelia forces a fight, he CC's her, does more damage than she inflicted, then continues to farm. Cho's cooldowns aren't THAT long and with a Frozen Heart+6 Stacks, he should not be forced out of lane by Irelia too easily, unless ALL she does is auto-attack him instead of farming her own minions.

Keep in mind, most of my experience with Cho'gath has been Jungle, although I have a fair bit of experience with him at Top Lane as well, but last season I got gold from jungling, so I am not sure how the dynamics change above 1500 Elo.
Yes, at levels 1-4 the lane is relatively even. The thing is, compare the cost of Phage to the cost of Frozen Heart. Cho isn't going to have that -20% attack speed until well into midgame, whereas Irelia could easily have her Phage by her first back. Additionally, Cho'Gath can't afford to rush a Frozen Heart against Irelia, due to her true damage. He needs an early health item like Catalyst or Giant's Belt. So no, you aren't right.

Irelia doesn't need to dash to Cho. Cho is melee and has to walk up to the minions to CS, especially levels 1-11 when his mana cost to mana pool ratio is obscenely bad and he can't afford to waveclear with rupture and feral scream. All Irelia has to do is stun/slow when he comes up to CS, then chase him down with autos. If Cho doesn't get in range...well, he gets zoned out from the creeps.

While Feral Scream may be simple to hit, it has little effect against Irelia, as she is auto-attack based. Rupture, meanwhile, is one of the hardest skillshots in the game to hit consistently. Irelia dashes to you. Where do you rupture, under yourself? By that time Irelia will have moved in front of you and can orbwalk you down. Behind you? Irelia will just stand on you and keep auto'ing. Irelia has an incredibly easy time orbwalking Cho.

Cho has an easy time if he just keeps harrassing Irelia down with W and Irelia never makes a smart engage and orbwalk chases. This is what happens against 90% of lower ELO Irelias.

Frozen Heart+6 stacks? You act like that just pops out of thin air. Irelia is great at PREVENTING Cho from reaching Frozen Heart+6 stacks. Additionally, yes, Cho's CD's are still horrendously long. Q and W are both utility-based and deal negligible damage without AP.

Cho'Gath is a low-level pubstomper, as inexperienced players don't expect his 600 true damage burst with Q>W>R>Ignite at level 6, but the higher ELO you go in Solo Queue the weaker of a top lane pick he becomes. His jungle is still solid, but with his recent nerfs and the way S3 has shifted the meta, Cho's shifted into a second rate top laner. I say this as a faithful Cho'Gath main who's played him from level 1 to Plat, with well over 1000 games played with him on various accounts.


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buneter

Senior Member

02-18-2013

you guys are diving way to far into this because hes the easiest champion to counter since 99% of cho players never turn off their spikes when hes in range of your turret run into where his spikes will shoot and let the turret do most of the damage it cost you very little health which your regen will be able to make back fast


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