Tank heroes are op

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Airbag

Member

09-21-2009

3 tank heroes on 1 team has a huge advantage than a more balanced team, here's why. Tanks really have no weakness in this game. Not only can they tower dive to gank heroes and still come out with over 50% hp (I've seen this happen even at fairly low levels), but if u get 3 of them pushing a lane, they plow through towers so fast and take the beatings of an entire team, all they really need is 1 healer and they're unstoppable.


Not only are they rediculously hard to kill with a couple tank items, but their damage is very respectable as well. I'm pretty sure 4 tanks + a healer who stacks tank items + AP could wreck any other team by just plowing into their base.


Nerf tanks and tank items imo. particularly armor and hp.


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Nayuki

Senior Member

09-21-2009

-snickers- Oh, totally...I just love taking my Rammus or Cho'Gath against a Ryze or Morgana...

-busts up laughing- This has to be the biggest laugh I have seen yet. If you go for magic defense on a tank some Ashe or Teemo are going to DMG stack and laugh at you (god forbid any serious assassins do it) and if you Armor stack you're a sitting duck for disable/nukers like Vierge, Ryze and others who will be doing the pretty 2-3k damage sets.

Tanks are awesome - against 50% of the game, depending on how they choose to armor spec. A hero who only rocks against 50% of other champs and is totally raped by the other 50% seems about as balanced as it gets to me.


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Thadious

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Senior Member

09-21-2009

I agree, Nayuki.

If you have a hard time beating 3 tanks then your team composition is off. Most tanks will go down to a powerful caster in no time. My favorite heroes to do it with are Anivia and even Veigar.


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Hmmer94

Member

09-21-2009

zZz...

No comment

ps: u play vs noobs and there is a 90% they might have infected you with the same desease.


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Airbag

Member

09-21-2009

no sorry, you guys are strait up wrong, they stack HP primarily, then armor and magic defense as seen fit (or both). Seems like the tanks u guys play against are nubs, i've tried this in inhouses (a lot of us are dota pros, and we've won nearly every single match we've played online, so saying "lol u are just nubs" is not a reasonable answer.)


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Nayuki

Senior Member

09-21-2009

If you allow a tank to get enough gold to stack hp/armor/magic defense - all of those - to a level that they are effective both versus AP and DMG stackers you horribly failed as a team and your losses are entirely your own fault, not those of the enemy champion.

It is impossible to get all three of those paramaters high enough to ward off nukers and physical DPSers both in the time they can just hard rush to a 400AP or 600-800 crit hit unless you decided to feed or ignore their presence and let them farm.

Edit: Btw, I main Rammus and Taric with a dash of Cho'Gath (all tanks) - I dare say I know my strengths and weaknesses as a tank a wee better than you with your level of uninformative complaints.

Edit 2: I'll be even MORE informative -

Rammus - I stack armor, HARD. A tiny bit of +hp and both regens along the way as I can get it, some magic defense if forced to, but anything I put cash towards asides from armor is a massive detriment to Rammus's synergy. I can easilly go 2v1 against most physical damage types late game thanks to that but even a solo Ryze with one combo will make me cry.

Cho'Gath - Same, except here I tend to stack +hp and +regen with a good chunk of armor (armor/hp tend to go along a lot) and some mp/magic defense. This tends to survive the best of them all because of Cho'Gaths ridiculously high HP totals and his ability to slow pursuers but it will be severely hurt in any kind of 2v1 and most likely have to run. With any kind of a disabler with heavy magic damage (Ryze/Morgana) along I will be weeping and running quickly from the 2v1, maybe even just from the nuker alone.

Taric - Now this is different because I go AP heavy on Taric and rely on his ability to heal himself over armor and hp. I tend to put emphasis on +ap, a bit of mana and regen and a good chunk of magic resist so I can survive a lock down/nuke barrage. This hero survives the best of my three mains against a Ryze/Morgana type of 'zomg, the trap combo!' type of move but still is far weaker to those even with emphasis on magic defense than it is against a couple of physical attackers. With good luck and some farming time this hero can handle 3v1 physical attackers if they're dumb, but 2v1 is still horrificly painful with any competent gankers around with a mage especially.

Edit 3: And also, don't you realize EVERYONE on here is a 'dota pro'...? -laughs-


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Airbag

Member

09-21-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayuki View Post
If you allow a tank to get enough gold to stack hp/armor/magic defense - all of those - to a level that they are effective both versus AP and DMG stackers you horribly failed as a team and your losses are entirely your own fault, not those of the enemy champion.

It is impossible to get all three of those paramaters high enough to ward off nukers and physical DPSers both in the time they can just hard rush to a 400AP or 600-800 crit hit unless you decided to feed or ignore their presence and let them farm.

Edit: Btw, I main Rammus and Taric with a dash of Cho'Gath (all tanks) - I dare say I know my strengths and weaknesses as a tank a wee better than you with your level of uninformative complaints.

also off, you assume tanks are bad in a lane....why? because of their low hp? no. Because of their lack of nukes/stuns? no... Because they are melee? wrong again, because of how easy it is to hide in bushes (top and bottom lane) with 2 tanks, pop out and instagib the caster/dpser since they have such low health in comparison to yours.

Your arguments are flawed, in fact, every single factor that worked to balance tanks in dota are removed in this game, they are powerful early game due to their HP advantage, and they have no lack of nukes/stuns/slows. ALSO creep kills are not nearly as important as they are in dota, (20g compared to 40_ in dota) so hero kills are more important, so keep that in mind.

There really is no weakness to tanks in this game and that NEEDS to be fixed before release.


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fUkox1U9InqpUXCu

Junior Member

09-21-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbag View Post
also off, you assume tanks are bad in a lane....why? because of their low hp? no. Because of their lack of nukes/stuns? no... Because they are melee? wrong again, because of how easy it is to hide in bushes (top and bottom lane) with 2 tanks, pop out and instagib the caster/dpser since they have such low health in comparison to yours.

Your arguments are flawed, in fact, every single factor that worked to balance tanks in dota are removed in this game, they are powerful early game due to their HP advantage, and they have no lack of nukes/stuns/slows. ALSO creep kills are not nearly as important as they are in dota, (20g compared to 40_ in dota) so hero kills are more important, so keep that in mind.

There really is no weakness to tanks in this game and that NEEDS to be fixed before release.
tanks are good early, thats right. but in lategame? have fun against ryze, jax and co


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Nayuki

Senior Member

09-21-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbag View Post
also off, you assume tanks are bad in a lane....why? because of their low hp? no. Because of their lack of nukes/stuns? no... Because they are melee? wrong again, because of how easy it is to hide in bushes (top and bottom lane) with 2 tanks, pop out and instagib the caster/dpser since they have such low health in comparison to yours.

Your arguments are flawed, in fact, every single factor that worked to balance tanks in dota are removed in this game, they are powerful early game due to their HP advantage, and they have no lack of nukes/stuns/slows. ALSO creep kills are not nearly as important as they are in dota, (20g compared to 40_ in dota) so hero kills are more important, so keep that in mind.

There really is no weakness to tanks in this game and that NEEDS to be fixed before release.
That line alone made you a joke. Kills in any form are unimportant in LoL - it's all about pressure. In the first six levels I would almost rather NOT kill a hero and force them to have to blue pill and come back than I would kill them. The loss of xp and gold they suffer is far more useful than the gold I get. After that the death timer is pretty fairly equivalent to what they'de spend getting back (and only gets worse) so killing is all well and good.

...Well, logically I say that - alas, even if it is logical I like to get a kill when I can get a kill but even I realise how uninformed that line was. Also most heroes have a good farming mechanic spell in them that can let them whipe a creep wave in a hit or two which is a nice chunk of change to say the least.

Now to look at what you said:

Because of low HP: You're right. They're tanks. Obviously they don't suffer from this.

Because of their lack of nukes/stuns/slows (added): True, nearly every tank has some form of this. They also almost all require them to get into melee. If you allow a melee to melee you as a ranged then one of three things happened:

A) You got ganked and weren't paying attention enough to see it coming. It happens, you messed up, not the fault of the champion type.

B) The hero was faster than yours and you failed to eact appropriatly to that. If the hero moves faster than yours you have to plan accordingly - they only will move enough faster to matter if they got items to do so or use a dead give-away spell (which they will have to use from a ways away or else you should already have reacted to them making an obvious move towards you). Once again this was you failing to compensate for their champion and not a fault of their choice.

C) They used flash/some other ability although I don't know any -tanks- that have flash like abilities. This is a crappy situation but it's the choice of the summoner spell, not the champion that puts you in this situation. If you have flash yourself or something similar you're fine, if not you eat hits and hope you can survive - once again nothing to do with the champion, just the summoner spell.

I'd like to add that pretty much every tank has only ONE of these abilities and the ranged variety have severe flaws. Taric can ranged stun, but then he does no damage and he has no slow capability to keep you there once stun is off. Cho'Gath has a ranged slow but it is delayed and has a very obvious animation/sound effect with no stunning component to keep you inside it. Rammus has neither and if you sit around in a silly place to get hit by a powerball that was your own fault.

Because they are Melee: This is crippling for any melee hero, although it's arguable of if it is the most or least crippling for tanks. A tank by its nature can take a lot more hits and just trudge its way through them but also cannot use the abilities most assassin types have which close space quickly (or sneakilly, Evelyn) to make up for this melee range. Bushes are an issue, but what kind of a true noob doesn't have a hero to claravoyance the bushes at the beginning of the game - the only time that a gib from those bushes should catch you by surprise? If you don't coordinate your team well enough to have 1-2 Claravoyance users and they use their first Claras to check the bushes out...sorry, you are indeed a noob in spite of all that you have tried to say to the contrary.

Being melee is a big deficiency against ranged attackers - especially ones like the Cryophoenix and Ashe who can just keep you slowed/stunned out of range all day or Ryze/Morgana/Teemo who can lock you down/get away so fast you have to duck and run before even getting up to them.

...I think that was all, plus you do not at all address the fact it will cost a fortune to be able to defend against both physical and melee attacks and have the HP for the defense to matter. My standard 'end game' HPs are around 3k on Rammus, 6-7k on Cho'Gath and 3k on Taric. A 400 AP caster will knock off Rammus' hp in two combos and have him seriously hurting in one but he can stand up to crits for quite a while. Cho'Gath can take both -decently-, it'll take 3-4 full combos from a 400ap mage to take him out, but he also has to suffer eating pretty decent damage from critical hits which can dish out good damage far more lethally than a burst on a big hp guy. Taric has heal spam and Radiance to help a lot but if he truly gets locked down a single critical attacker or lock down mage can do it because he suffers in both the armor and magic resist department.

You are being completely blind. Guess some tank raped you pretty hard.


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feardragon

Senior Member

09-21-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayuki View Post
Bushes are an issue, but what kind of a true noob doesn't have a hero to claravoyance the bushes at the beginning of the game - the only time that a gib from those bushes should catch you by surprise? If you don't coordinate your team well enough to have 1-2 Claravoyance users and they use their first Claras to check the bushes out...sorry, you are indeed a noob in spite of all that you have tried to say to the contrary.
I don't have any problems with your general point but who gets Clairvoyance anymore since the nerf? >> If you have a skillshot, toss it into the bushes before going in. Usually that either gets them out or lowers their health so you have a shot. Either that or just don't stand near the bushes if you aren't sure you can take whatever's in there. >>

I just don't see a point in wasting a summoner spell for it these days. From the games I've played, doesn't seem like anyone else does either.


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