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Would you like it if TT was 5v5?

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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

10-05-2011

That's what I've been thinking about in regards to Twisted Treeline since I heard about the 6v6 games on the map.

-Games would still be short.
-Play style would still be gank-heavy.
-It'd be balanced!


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BRAVEYpl0x

Senior Member

10-05-2011

I could see this working. You could have 1 or 2 roaming gankers running around all game and never laning lol. This would still favor beefy brush campers and 1v1-ers like Morde, Xin, and Garen tho. How do you think it would help to make other champ roles more viable (other than in full teamfights, where having glass cannons behinds meat-shields is a definite upper-hand).


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infinite azure

Senior Member

10-05-2011

Honestly that's simply too many people for the available exp and space. It's far more balanced in it's current form with smaller scale teamfights.

The advantages that 3v3 as a number of teammates gives:

more meaningful synergy, combine annie-nunu, cass-singed, vayne-ali or any pair that works well and you'll feel it
cleaner fights with less abilities flying around, the potential to get randomly instagibbed is lessened. There are never fights as entirely unfair as you'd see on SR.
Abilities are more meaningful, as there are less players around.

If it were a 5v5 I'd see even LESS reason to play a squishy champ, at least as it is now all the dangerous facechecks and corners can't have 5 enemies around them.


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JayceJa

Senior Member

10-05-2011

5v5 on the 3v3 map would end up a pushfest really, i enjoyed the 6v6 TTs while they lasted for just a bit of fun, but 6v6 or 5v5 should never become the default for it


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DrKered

Senior Member

10-05-2011

I am sad that they got rid of the glitch that allowed you to play 6v6 in TT


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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Quote:
AzuraZero:
Honestly that's simply too many people for the available exp and space...


That could easily be remedied by an increase in how much gold and exp each minion gives (including jungle creeps).

The stealth rework also plans to remove oracles to eliminate ward-sweeping, so warding will become extra prevalent and be the solution to facechecking.

And frankly, I think having so many people in such a small map would be more fun.




If necessary, a global aura could be applied to Treeline just like Crystal Scar to make squishies more effective.


Honestly, I've never been afraid of Annie when I've played TT as a 3v3 game.
She's less effective because nuking down one champion doesn't mean the other 2 can't kill her allies and win.

A 5v5 would be more effective because the number of champions make one's death more significant.

Annie can nuke one champion really fast to turn it into 4v5.

In a 3v3 circumstance, some champions can handle 2v3 fights easily. 4v5 fights is not so easy due to the variety of damage output - 5 ppl focus 1 person - That person is dead; the fight quickly snowballs to 3v5, 2v5, 1v5, and the team gets aced. That's why Summoner's Rift doesn't support Tanky DPS as much. You have more attackers to bust through all their health.

On TT currently, 3 people focus 1 - Some Tanky DPS like Mundo and Mordekaiser can survive that. That`s why Treeline is unbalanced.
You're Annie - You nuke down 1~2, on Summoner's Rift, you've done your job, on Twisted Treeline, the enemy Mordekaiser proceeds to get a triple kill on your team because you've used your burst and your two allies lack the damage to kill him - This isn't so in 5v5 where you have 2 extra allies to attack him (or focus other targets)



5v5 would make squishy casters more viable - Not less.
You call them squishy without addressing the reason why they're squishy - amazing spike magic nukes that can take an enemy out of a fight instantly.

AD Ranged Carries would probably have more trouble, but as I said, increase in gold-pacing would make that easier on them too.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Bump.


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Lenowill

Recruiter

10-06-2011

Occasionally joining the 6v6 TT custom games people have been running has proven to me that a larger number of players on the TT map would be very interesting. A very different meta from what exists on it right now, and different still from SR due to the claustrophobic tininess of the map (and the need to either get lots of champ kills or buy gold-generating items in order to set a solid foundation financially, since there aren't enough minions to go around). Dragon becomes devastatingly important, even more so than in regular TT, and to a certain degree I think that's very cool.

Even if 5v5 or 6v6 is not a fully supported matchmaking mode for the map, I would love to see the option to use more than 3 players on the map be officially supported in custom games, at the very least. After all, if it gets enough popularity there, then matchmaking support might be warranted. (We need a good ARAM map with matchmaking queues - speaking of which!)


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DreamsOfGrandeur

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Quote:
Lenowill:
Occasionally joining the 6v6 TT custom games people have been running has proven to me that a larger number of players on the TT map would be very interesting.


One big problem with using the custom games to get a picture of what 5v5 TT would be like is that custom games don't use matchmaking.

You've got low-elo level30s paired with level30s confident in their skills.

Quote:
Lenowill:
A very different meta from what exists on it right now, and different still from SR due to the claustrophobic tininess of the map (and the need to either get lots of champ kills or buy gold-generating items in order to set a solid foundation financially, since there aren't enough minions to go around). Dragon becomes devastatingly important, even more so than in regular TT, and to a certain degree I think that's very cool.


A struggle for dragon-control from the very beginning of the game sounds like a refreshing nostaglic comeback of level1 dragon fights on Summoner's Rift

The gold issue, as mentioned before, could be remedied with a higher minion spawn/gold-reward. (Like 4 melee, 4 caster, 1 cannon per wave, with 2 extra cannons every 3 waves)
-The jungle rework could be applied to TT as well to make small camps more easily poached.

The tininess of the map is also part of the appeal, in my opinion, as Summoner's Rift is vast. A smaller map with allies constantly closer and objectives eaiser to reach sounds like a simpler take on classic LoL.

Newbies could get right into the action and learn their champions in a 5v5 set-up with allies beside them all the time instead of winging it in SR where they're super far from allies on those isolated lanes.


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infinite azure

Senior Member

10-06-2011

I'd really like you to understand the amount of dragon struggle that already exists, the map is not right for 5 players, it just isn't.

Casters being able to instagib a member of your team and then have nothing come of it is incompetence not tankydps OP. You need to look at the rest of your team and think about how they're dead weight if annie can guarantee a 3v2 and then not win, cause she has some spells that come up again, and tibbers does damage beyond the first boom.

Gold issues for carries are solved by dragon, and that in turn is how you get ahead or behind. This differential is already making them powerful.

I have to ask how much 3v3 have you actually played in a team? teamwork is more important than on SR cause anything you do makes up 1/3 the team. Abilities used to their full effect become more important because it's 1/12 of the skills on your team, or 1/3 the ultimates.

Tanky dps... surviving a burst caster?! unheard of, seriously though I play kennen who has a hard time full-to-nothing comboing any tankydps, and I did fine all the way to gold. Brand is more powerful though given the ease of his ult being isolated to two targets in the narrow areas.

Casters can eliminate a whole member of your team with burst or soften through AoE.
Tanks can disable larger portions of their team.
Ad carries when protected are more difficult to instagib because there simply aren't enough skills flying around to instagib them like SR.
Supports are a bigger gambit that someone on your team is worth saving, but still bring utility or damage.
Tankydps can only do so much against a fully functioning team. Often the AD carry is a tankydps, but cait, vayne, ashe, trist, ezreal, I've seen it all work.
The most common use of tanky-dps I've done is using them as a damage supplement to a caster or carry's damage.

Also how many TT games have to actually played competitively, and I mean where dragon is fought over at 4:40 or at the very least warded?

please play the map more before suggesting such a huge change.

TT is not the kiddie pool, it never really has been, it seems simpler, but with the extra movement ganking and teamwork required SR's passive nature is nothing like it.

Isolation =/= harder


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