Team caps 3 and goes for 5. We lose everything

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Aceilver

Senior Member

10-05-2011

I don't mind if 1 or 2 guys go to cap a 4th but when its the whole **** team besides me trying to cap all 5 and they die.... Then I get pissed because theyre being idiots and then blame me for not defending when the other team kills me in a 4v1 and take 4 or 5 of the CPs


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CaffeineJunky

Senior Member

10-05-2011

It's easier to get a five cap and contain the enemy in their base by waiting in the forest and popping the ones who go and try and capture the points.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoBreak View Post
STOP DOING THIS. Cap 3 then defend. Stop trying to cap everything. I want to say 90% of the games i have played where people try to cap more than 3 points, we lose.

Also stop chasing people around the middle of the map. Kills don't win this mode! Just make them run away from the turret and stay there. Why would you chase into what is most likely a trap or a distraction so someone can cap from behind?

So many games where we get the other team down to like 30 while having 120+ ourselves but still lose.

Yes i mad >:\
I disagree thoroughly and can back it up. The following is a passage from my thread which covers many aspects of metagame strategy thoroughly.

"The "get 3 turrets and hold them" strategy, is one that I believed in for a while when Dominion was newer than it is now and I had less experience in it. It is a completely flawed strategy for the most part, although it does have its place, like if there is only 10 seconds or less until you win. The flaw in it outside of those circumstances is that you wont be able to hold 3 turrets against an experience team. There is no way. At best you guard your turrets 2-1-2? So they jump the solo protected turret with 3 champs. Then they have 3 and you have 2. It wont last long this way unless they suck. Now, if you have 3 turrets, but your whole team aggressively attacks their remaining turrets, what happens? ****ed if they do, ****ed if they dont. If they defend their 2 turrets, then your other turrets are safe because they arent being attacked, and their nexus it ticking down all the while. If they let you have the turrets and go for your undefended turrets, well, you gained 2 turrets and lost 1 or 2, and you still have the majority. I dont believe Ive ever seen them scatter and take 3 turrets while your team takes 2, ever. If you can push all the way back and take one of their closest turrets, this IS a good place to defend while your team tries to 5 cap. If you can 5 cap even momentarily, you can defend 2-3 with a 2 turret choke point. This rarely holds for too long, but hit holds significantly longer than 2-1-2 holding 3 turrets, and they get their nexus DRILLED. Even when they fight and get back 2 turrets, you are still drilling their nexus. This strategy is a digression, but it does involve agro, and it is also wrecked by agro dumpers."

Its rather important that you understand the other concepts in the thread because this is out of context, but I think the point is made. So you see, quite honestly, when you sit on that turret when you need to be closing out, you fail and I mad. You get me killed and lose the game. Thats why you lost.

"Playing for Personal Score Vs. Playing for Win"
This is the post if you are curious.


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Aikimiller

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoBreak View Post
It's worked for the other team every time i lose. We cap 3 then the rest of my team wanders off to try and cap the rest. They die then the other team proceeds to cap 3 and turtle to win. It's what happens for almost every loss i get.
There's your problem right there. You get three, and then split up and derp around, at which point the enemy rapes you with a numbers advantage. Hold three and defend is a viable strategy- and capping three and then, as a team, moving onto the 4th is also a viable strategy. It is correct in that you can't just Cap three and turtle- however you can cap three, and then actively respond to the other teams attacks, or you can take the stance that the best defense is a good offence, and launch a coordinated assault on another point, or if they're all dead even 5.

There is no point in this game where wandering off is a viable strategy (particularly when they have 3 points- when you're down is when you need to coordinate the most). And a hard lesson to learn is that the strongest way to contribute to a team is to figure out what everyone else wants to do, and help them, even if you think it is wrong. In the situation you spoke of, they ran off on an offensive, presumably leaving you defending. This means that they are assaulting 4v5, because you've not come with them, and are quite possible to die because of it. Now, whether you join them to try and help turn the tide, and when you let them run off and defend while they're being stupid, is a game dependent decision- mostly based on how much back-capping the other team has been doing, and how many of them are dead currently, the best play will be different in every game.

The bottom line though, is that blaming other people isn't going to win you more games, unfortunatly (otherwise I'd have a perfect ratio). Using Pings to coordinate assaults and retreats, and communicating with your team WILL help though. No, they won't always listen, sometimes you have a team of idiots. But it helps a lot more than just telling them they're bad.


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Ulstan

Senior Member

11-08-2011

This is the #1 cause of losing in dominion.

People win a fight at windmill, feel jubilant, charge on towards the enemies base points, get crushed by full health quickly respawning enemy team.


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Lolkoopa

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Upvoted. I lost so many games because people attempting to cap all 5 only to die. I only try to cap more than three when I check the enemy team's respawn timer and where they are. If they're all at bottom or all/most of them are at a 20 sec respawn then you can try to cap more than 3.


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slowfiveoh

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Move as a team and a unit and aggressively pursue and dominate the other team.

You have before you a topographical map wherein your characters can move around, divided by distance and time. Separation is a necessity for those who subscribe to the "Cap 3 and hold it" philosophy which, to be blunt, is the dumbest f***ing thing anybody could say ever, and really shows how much you actually know about the game mode.

In all reality brute force and pressure are the only things that will keep the opposite team occupied. If you divide your numbers, as so many people with actual minds have alluded to, you simply get a case of late game shenanigans wherein the other team can roll in numbers, soak turret damage like it was candy, and rape whatever individual point they want.

Instead, apply nonstop pressure to the other team. Harass them. isolate them.

Dominion, in case some of you haven't figured it out, is NOT about sitting with a tent under capped points, but is about harassment, kills, and denial of movement.

Sitting under your precious capped point does none of these things.

By the way, I have a 6 minute 40 second long dominion match win. No leavers, just a hell of an aggressive team controlling both exit points to their spawn with extreme prejudice and pressure.

Try sitting under a turret and doing that. Oh wait, you can't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulstan View Post
This is the #1 cause of losing in dominion.

People win a fight at windmill, feel jubilant, charge on towards the enemies base points, get crushed by full health quickly respawning enemy team.
Incorrect.

The #1 cause of losing dominion is baddies who think they are tactical geniuses telling everybody to simply hold all capped points. Then, whenever a team fight breaks out, they are never to be found, and do nothing but ridicule their team while not assisting in any functional way whatsoever as they pitch a tent on a point.

What part of "There are only 2 of you guarding that point, and 4-5 of them approaching" is so hard to understand.

Turtle and die.

Pressure, and win.


Edit: Hrmm good golly. 7 minutes flat on that last game.


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Ansre

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ytinasni View Post
cap 3 and turtle, see how well that works for you.
How about, cap 3 and don't push another unless you've amassed a creep wave in that lane and/or just killed 2-3+ of the enemy team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
If you divide your numbers, as so many people with actual minds have alluded to, you simply get a case of late game shenanigans wherein the other team can roll in numbers, soak turret damage like it was candy, and rape whatever individual point they want.
This can happen at any point during the game.

The counter is backdoor; to put it in your terms, pressure them by capping other points instead of facing them directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
By the way, I have a 6 minute 40 second long dominion match win. No leavers, just a hell of an aggressive team controlling both exit points to their spawn with extreme prejudice and pressure.
No one's advocating passively sitting under your turret and waiting to get hit. Even Heimer should be hiding in the fog if he's just going to defend bot turret, for example.

Also, no one cares about that one game where your whole team played strong champs and all of the enemy team or maybe all but one of the enemy team played awful champs, and you sat in their base killing them shrugging off the fountain damage, etc. etc. etc.

We've all had at least one of those.


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aim1essgun

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Holding 3 is perfectly fine unless you're retarded and sit on your points.

And I think people generally have less map awareness in Dom, they don't seem to feel it's as important to keep track of respawn timers and where the enemy champs are, and who is mis. Holding 3 and pushing 4 if they have lots on respawn is very strong if your team has any sort of map awareness.


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slowfiveoh

Senior Member

11-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansre View Post
How about, cap 3 and don't push another unless you've amassed a creep wave in that lane and/or just killed 2-3+ of the enemy team.
Uh no, creeps have such little significance for point capping in this game that it is infuriating to see some mindless mouth frothing ****** farm minions bot when he could walk up and cap the point without the 30 seconds of poking wave after wave uninhibited.

You do realize you can do that yes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansre View Post
This can happen at any point during the game.

The counter is backdoor; to put it in your terms, pressure them by capping other points instead of facing them directly.
Uh no. The initial assault is pivotal as it sets the spawn rate for reinforcements right off the bat. As many top as possible, then WIN that fight by any means necessary. Continue to reinforce and push, harassing advancing opponents in the open lane with the majority of your team present.

You also completely and totally avoid the reality of mid to late game transitions in that turrets massively lose effectiveness. If I can drop on a turret with Panth, soak a few hits while dropping their team to 1/2 or less health with a well timed and prepped HSS, then you can only imagine what uncountable other meaty dps characters can do.

I mean ffs a Sion can simply spam his ult, gazeone, and walk in cleaving. This isn't even considering the rest of the team.

Backdooring is NOT the answer. Persistent pressure IS the answer. The one player (An Eve, a Twitch, a TF, a Rammus etc.) thinking he is stealthy mcninja avoiding all fights leaves his team at a significant disadvantage.

While you are off "contributing", you are allowing for the decimation of your team by making them numerical disadvantaged in any and all fights, wherein they will be killed and the opposition will simply cap the nearest point.

You have to think abstractly and beyond the initial layers of plebian stupidity, and start viewing the situation more as a Kasparov or Sun Tzu.

In this game mode, definitively, the best defense is indeed a well coordinated, aggressive offense.

Every single game I have wherein my team is unified and aggressive, we steamroll, as in the example provided above.

It's only when you get that stupid idiot ass who thinks he is some tactical god that I have miserable games. Almost exclusively, they do terrible as well. Camping bottom all game with persistent 5v4's occurring everywhere else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansre View Post
Also, no one cares about that one game where your whole team played strong champs and all of the enemy team or maybe all but one of the enemy team played awful champs, and you sat in their base killing them shrugging off the fountain damage, etc. etc. etc.

We've all had at least one of those.
Are you drinking drain-o?

Our teams were VERY evenly matched. If you think that my team had an advantage in ANY of our steamrolls I have some serious news for you.

-I have done this with Galio.
-I have done this with Gragas.
-I have done this with Fiddlesticks.
-I have done this with Ryze. (Without so much as a stacked tear.)


Here is probably the best series of tips you will get from an experienced player in this game:

-Do NOT get caught up in "this is a strong and this is a weak character" arguments or frame of minds. You WILL get rick rolled by an all support team one day in the hands of competent players.
-Skill, build knowledge, and map tactics rule this game.
-Stop purchasing tier one runes dude....they are a complete, utter, definite waste of IP, and do not present enough of ANY advantage to be worth purchasing early on.



Now here is the part I point out the enormous, gaping distance between my understanding of the game, and your understanding of the game. This is also the spot where you claim that this is your second account or some other miserable reach for substantiation of your comments.

Dude, I have over 9 times your normal wins, and potentially more than that already on Dominion. I have been playing for over 2 years, and am offering this advice out of pure kindness and generosity. Take it, or get caught up in the scrubby nubtastic point of view you are beginning to express.