Stealth

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Gullivre

Senior Member

06-08-2010

Remove Oracle's Elixir from the game. Limit Stealth detection to Wards. Or, if absolutely necessary, implement an on-use item that puts a debuff on stealthed units within range of the user that reveals the debuffed characters for a limited time (ie: Dust).


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Phonike

Member

06-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
The problem is that Eve is an assassin and Twitch is an AoE DPS. Shaco is more or less a non-issue, because if he does it right he won't be seen until it's too late anyway (built in blink).

Eve being an assassin means she can deal very very large amounts of damage in short periods of time, but she can't even take half of what she can dish out most of the time. This is the nature of being an assassin. The fact that she is a stealth champion just makes it worse, because that kind of sustained burst on something that can go invisible is terrifying. So she is even squishier than other assassins. Her double squishyness makes her completely reliant on her stealth to do anything at all, and even then she is not safe from rogue skill shots and AoE's that can kill her before she even makes her move. This is further compounded by the fact that she is a melee champion. Melee champions have to get up close and personal to do anything. In this regard she gets gimped by Oracles more so than Twitch, since she has to run in and attack you at the center of your reveal radius to hurt you.

Twitch is probably the most unique class of DPS. He deals sustained AoE physical burst, and a lot of it. He also fits into the assassin class, meaning he is squishier than his own damage potential. This squishyness makes him reliant on his stealth to get into position and hide until the time is right to Spray'n'Pray the entire enemy team, though not as bad as Eve, since he is ranged. His range, in fact, is about the same as the Oracle reveal radius. So even if you do counter him, it's a gamble to whether or not he will be seen.

Now to the general case. Stealth is a tricky mechanic to balance. But I think we can all agree that if all champions had a natural "true sight", it would defeat the purpose of even having stealth champions at all. It would in fact destabilize them further.
Very well put, but the assumption at the end is based off of the truesight being far. As I said there would be a Stealth stat vs Stealth detect stat meaning they could perhaps give Eve a higher stealth stat which would require you to focus your vision on her longer and at a closer range. But regardless you make an excellent point. It is interesting to hear the player's viewpoints on stealth even when they are content with the current mechanics.


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Lawful

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Senior Member

06-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larzak The Boss View Post
I dont think that it could be a cone, that just wouldnt be efficient. Characters turn pretty fast. And i dont think they should remove oracles completely. Maybe a price increase.

But overall i dont think its a good idea. Stealth is fine the way it is and the changes you suggest would be big.
No its a bad idea, no other games have these kinda ridicolous stealth detections and it just flaws all logics.

Oracles are cheap and effecient against stealth classes and remember, there are only Two real stealth classes in the game and their also very suishy and very reliant on their stealth to be able to do anything, especially eve.

If you make stealth detection as a basic thing, then that you heavily hit them and make them little to useless.


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Lawful

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Senior Member

06-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonike View Post
Well my majority problem with stealth characters as I tried to state before is how unstable they are. Their incline from being very easy to kill up to being impossible to escape, though they are balanced they are not very stable. I was just looking for a solution to try to stabilize them to where they can somewhat keep their survivability and utility as a stealth champion as well as being able to participate from beginning to end.As well as adding a more complex and tactful playing mechanism.This was mostly just a idea to get some feedback on how other people felt on this issue. It seems most people are satisfied with stealth characters as is and they have already undergone so many changes. No need to negative rate the post just leave your opinion on the matter as this is by no means a "nerf stealth" post.
You are not trying to stabilize them but ruin them, there is nothing more to add and thats obvious, don't sugar coat it with pretty words.


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Lawful

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Senior Member

06-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
The problem is that Eve is an assassin and Twitch is an AoE DPS. Shaco is more or less a non-issue, because if he does it right he won't be seen until it's too late anyway (built in blink).

Eve being an assassin means she can deal very very large amounts of damage in short periods of time, but she can't even take half of what she can dish out most of the time. This is the nature of being an assassin. The fact that she is a stealth champion just makes it worse, because that kind of sustained burst on something that can go invisible is terrifying. So she is even squishier than other assassins. Her double squishyness makes her completely reliant on her stealth to do anything at all, and even then she is not safe from rogue skill shots and AoE's that can kill her before she even makes her move. This is further compounded by the fact that she is a melee champion. Melee champions have to get up close and personal to do anything. In this regard she gets gimped by Oracles more so than Twitch, since she has to run in and attack you at the center of your reveal radius to hurt you.

Twitch is probably the most unique class of DPS. He deals sustained AoE physical burst, and a lot of it. He also fits into the assassin class, meaning he is squishier than his own damage potential. This squishyness makes him reliant on his stealth to get into position and hide until the time is right to Spray'n'Pray the entire enemy team, though not as bad as Eve, since he is ranged. His range, in fact, is about the same as the Oracle reveal radius. So even if you do counter him, it's a gamble to whether or not he will be seen.

Now to the general case. Stealth is a tricky mechanic to balance. But I think we can all agree that if all champions had a natural "true sight", it would defeat the purpose of even having stealth champions at all. It would in fact destabilize them further.
You sir get a thumbs up.


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