AP carry zilean?

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IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerfaust View Post
And nothing you say makes sense to anyone...
I know you are joking but, lets assume you were serious.

You just admitted you spoke with every single person on earth, and they all gave the exact same response. You must be a wizard, am I correct?


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mambawarrior0

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damein Sandow View Post
I know you are joking but, lets assume you were serious.

You just admitted you spoke with every single person on earth, and they all gave the exact same response. You must be a wizard, am I correct?
I have no idea what you are trying to imply or say here. Nothing you just said made any sense to me.
(See, we can do it too.)


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Fs Son0fSilas

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damein Sandow View Post
First of all there is no such thing as being unknowledgeable when that wiki page says all the knowledge. secondly you proved my point he is niche for that very reason, but your sort of wrong here. In a team fight you'd want to drop your bombs on the enemy ranged ad carry, NO enemy ranged ad carry would purchase banshees viel. If they did now YOUR ad carry has a major edge and you'd probably win. Why would you drop a bomb on someone who has the bubble up any ways. I am unknowledge on if zileans slow pops the bubble, if so, then you'd probably use the slow to pop the bubble or atleast that is an alternative if it exists. Thirdly there is a thing called sorcerers boots and void staff, that makes your magic damage penetrate these so called resistances. so it's almost like you doing true damage. It is HP stacking that sort of fights against this true damage penetrating.

basically zilean is useful to his team if he gets auras like will of ancients maybe even randumins omen, and zekes herald, or locket of iron solarie or reverie ghost active aura. he is more useful if he does these things.

he is not played often, that is a fact. you can't deny that.

another thing about his ult is this: he uses it to prevent damage, but which is niche, but another ult that just nukes people, or heals your team, or cc's their team. these ult help team fights more than zileans. also good players watch for the gold things, and switch targets making zileans ult do nothing. other times they just kill the person twice as if it was no big deal.
You must be using a different internet because the wiki clearly states he should be built AP to maximize his damage and ult, and his ratio's are also VERY clearly stated.

I also never said he was niche, and I don't agree with your reasoning. In a team fight you don't in fact want to drop bombs on the AD carry. You quickly find yourself out of position, and then wasting your ult on yourself. You should be putting bombs on a) your initiator or b) the enemy AP ... c) would be the enemy AD if you don't expose yourself.

You would be wasting the second strongest slow in the game using it to pop a shield(Nasus' wither being the strongest % wise).

Sorc boots do not give enough penetration on top of runes and masteries to deal true damage. You also shouldn't get Void staff, considering it doesn't give you Mana, CDR, or defense; all things he needs. When he is strongest (early-mid) penetration won't be a factor, as you are most likely, already fighting someone with low resistances.

He also does not reduce ANY damage with his ult. He restores an ally to near full health (if his AP is high enough) and can save a team from falling apart. A good Zilean won't just put his ult on mid fight and hope the enemy just continues to attack... you put it on the ADC that gets caught by a knock up or stun, etc.

I could recommend aura items, but the teams support should be getting them. The main stats he needs are CDR, Mana, HP, and AP. I've also been known to rush Deathcap to maximize his mid game damage. With the addition of Athena's his mana issues are also easier to handle.

Honestly, you should really try playing him, but do so with a team you can communicate with.


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSilas View Post
SERIOUSLY, why are you signing every post? And while it's kind of you to address everyone by name (I respect that) Smoothlikebuttah is unlikely to come back to this thread. It's over a month old. I'm just saying...
That **** is over a year old.

And yes, Damein is a troll. Hence, the level 1 smurf.

Also, I'd also would completely ignore the strategy sections on the wiki. Worse than Mobafire at times.


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Fs Son0fSilas

Senior Member

11-09-2012

^ thanks for clearing that up lol I only read 10-01-xxxx XD

I should also mention you suggested playing AD Annie, Damein. I willing to suspend disbelief and say you are just misinformed, and not trolling. It's just not looking good for you right now....


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IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSilas View Post
In a team fight you don't in fact want to drop bombs on the AD carry. You quickly find yourself out of position, and then wasting your ult on yourself. You should be putting bombs on a) your initiator or b) the enemy AP ... c) would be the enemy AD if you don't expose yourself.
Someone on enemy team initiates and their ranged ad carry no where near there, you drop bomb on the initiator, and kill him for being bad enough to initiate alone with out his team their to capitalize on it.

if the enemy carry is sitting near the area waiting for your team to blow their abilities so she has an open opportunity to come in and wreck your team. then you got to be cautious of that.

ad carries are to be focused imediately when they are in range to use their auto attack, you won't run to the back of the enemy team to drop bombs on the carry, just wait for her to come to your team. your bomb range is near equal to most ranged ad carry's auto attack range, and you got a movespeed boost.

ap carries like zilean are focused immediately after they used their abilties and everything is on cooldown. veiger just bait out his meteor and stuff and he if free to get focus with out worry of more meteors for a short time, is just another example. with ad carries you ignore them until they are in range to do their damage. be wary of if they sitting near by waiting for you to waste your abilities on the initiator.

like i said before if the ad carry is not waiting near by and a bad initiator initiates alone, then of course you burst him down for his mistake.

your right killing the ap carries is also highly important too. zilean is one of them, and one way zilean is countered by waiting for him to waste his bombs them being hyper aggressive whilst it is on cooldown. if the enemy ap or ad carry was near by waiting for you to waste it, then you as the zilean made a bad play using it on the initiator.


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Fs Son0fSilas

Senior Member

11-09-2012

^ that is why the #1 example I gave was to bomb YOUR initiator

You also cannot 1v1 or catch a single enemy alone late game. You need to be near your team and never alone 100% of the time . You shouldn't initiate by speeding yourself up just to catch an ADC at the back of the enemy team, you WILL be caught, as I said. If you have to speed someone up, speed up your initiator. Save it for slowing down the enemy though, especially enemies out of position. The most important thing to remember is to double bomb minions that the enemy are near. You should be far enough away to protect you from retaliation, and you will deal all of your damage instantly.

Protip: If the enemy is playing safe, bomb minions the enemy is about to last hit. Also bomb minions YOU are about to last hit if it means either killing the back wave of caster minions, or dealing damage to enemy trying to stay out of your range.


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IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSilas View Post
^ that is why the #1 example I gave was to bomb YOUR initiator

You also cannot 1v1 or catch a single enemy alone late game. You need to be near your team and never alone 100% of the time . You shouldn't initiate by speeding yourself up just to catch an ADC at the back of the enemy team, you WILL be caught, as I said. If you have to speed someone up, speed up your initiator. Save it for slowing down the enemy though, especially enemies out of position. The most important thing to remember is to double bomb minions that the enemy are near. You should be far enough away to protect you from retaliation, and you will deal all of your damage instantly.

Protip: If the enemy is playing safe, bomb minions the enemy is about to last hit. Also bomb minions YOU are about to last hit if it means either killing the back wave of caster minions, or dealing damage to enemy trying to stay out of your range.
My argument originally was that zilean was niche, i then said 1.8 ratio is indeed decent for a mage, but nothing fantastic for a mage. I later said he is really niche and it's fact he is not played often. He is just too niche. You then been making posts for no reason any more. I corrected you on dropping bombs on somebody wearing banshee's in which most squishies won't buy that, it would put them behind in damage. You were also talking about team fights and late game, You said zilean was weak, I agreed. I did not agree with the reason you gave for zilean being weak late game. He is weak late game cause his damage is a one trick pony and nothing TOO impressive for a mage. His ult is alot more useless in team fights than most other mages or supports. It is not something that nukes the entire enemy team, or cc's the entire enemy team, or heals your own team. zileans ult can be ignored making it useless or they just kill the person twice like its no big deal. That is why zilean is niche. Plus you said he had the second best slow in the game. The fact is slows are not as good as stuns, snares, knock ups, fears, displacements. Plus his slow does NO damage, in which nunu can atleast slow their attack speed and have a 1.0 ap ratio on it.

with all this said that you said and i said we further discussed my original point, zilean is niche. please quit making useless posts like this one you just did. we were not talking about the laning phase. late game team fights rarely happen around minions.

I am coming to the conclusion all your posts are trolling me and you are simply doing it cause you think I am giving misleading info, and fact is I am posting on threads to help people. I am human not perfectly word my stuff, and people like you misread things and try to take it out of context like this next quote of yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSilas View Post
^ thanks for clearing that up lol I only read 10-01-xxxx XD

I should also mention you suggested playing AD Annie, Damein. I willing to suspend disbelief and say you are just misinformed, and not trolling. It's just not looking good for you right now....
The person was looking for "a ranged ad carry" and said "they just mastered annie now what". I suggested this weeks free ranged AD carries corkie and caitlyn. Then I said he could play AD annie against bots which works against bots in a bot game, I would never suggest AD annie against humans, which is why I never said that. He did say he "mastered annie" when you master a champ it is time to mix things up with new builds for fun.


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Fs Son0fSilas

Senior Member

11-10-2012

^ did you ever stop to think that I wasn't posting just for you? maybe I was trying to inform others about Zilean? If I could possibly rephrase a former statement, he isn't weak late game, his role just changes.

I wont say he's niche, he just requires a higher skill set and team dynamic to be successful.

I don't troll, in fact I was taking your side when other's were calling you one. You told someone to build AD Annie, regardless of whether or not it's in a bot game, you are still wasting that persons time. That person should be practicing different builds yes, not builds however completely counter-intuitive to the champions original design. You also failed to mention in that quote or in your post, that you recommended getting her shield first, and filling her stun in the spawn.

The fact that you may or may not troll people on purpose is irrelevant. You give poor information regularly, and all I ask is to fact check. Try playing these champions first, and try these builds you are suggesting. That way you can waste your time and not ours.

Speaking of which, I'm done on this matter, and have spoken my last words on it

To anyone reading I hope my information helped, I began playing Zilean as a support, until turning my eye mid. He was my very first mid champion. GL SUMMONERS


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IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25

Senior Member

11-10-2012

ok bro. but i was the victim of needless bullying in this thread, and some of your earlier posts seemed directed at me.