Let's talk about Cleanse

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dogemelons

Senior Member

06-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinLung View Post
I suppose you're right. I think the main problem with cleanse is that it makes the game a bit too easy in some situations. "I'll gank ashe or morg any day, I'll just cleanse their ults when or if they use it on me. And if they don't use it on me, I'll still have my cleanse ready!". I think to make it more balanced and "skillful", Cleanse should grant a whatever-second immunity to snares/stuns/slows/debuffs, but it shouldn't REMOVE them from you. That way, you would have to be much more careful and anticipate and predict more often. Did you see Ashe fire her arrow? activate cleanse to be immune to it before it hits. Getting ready to gank Ryze and don't want to be snared? Activate Cleanse for the 3-second immunity just before heading in.

When a Melee hero gets exhausted, he just has to run and wait it out before he can hit again. If I have my Cleanse active, Ashe would just have to wait it out before my immunity wears of and THEN use her arrow.
You hear of people commenting on "nice flash getaway", or "healed us just in time, nice". When someone cleanses, it's just "ooh ffs". But with this new idea of a cleanse, it would be regarded as more skillful and wellplayed.
I think nerfing cleanse would just make the game even more centered around heals, since as of now cleanse/flash are the only things that really give carries any survivability unless they go out of their way to build tanky items. And flash is being removed, so cleanse is really the main way for carries to stay useful/alive during a team fight, since they will inevitably be the target of all CC.
Personally, I think it's just a matter of paying attention to who has cleanse and whether it's on CD or not. If you're playing Malzahar and you know Ashe has cleanse but you haven't seen her use it recently, then don't blow your ult on her. Wait until you see her waste it on a more spammable CC, then go in and ult her. Yeah, that means you need to pay attention or talk to your teammates, but I don't think it's too hard.


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MuffinLung

Senior Member

06-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemongod View Post
I think nerfing cleanse would just make the game even more centered around heals, since as of now cleanse/flash are the only things that really give carries any survivability unless they go out of their way to build tanky items. And flash is being removed, so cleanse is really the main way for carries to stay useful/alive during a team fight, since they will inevitably be the target of all CC.
Personally, I think it's just a matter of paying attention to who has cleanse and whether it's on CD or not. If you're playing Malzahar and you know Ashe has cleanse but you haven't seen her use it recently, then don't blow your ult on her. Wait until you see her waste it on a more spammable CC, then go in and ult her. Yeah, that means you need to pay attention or talk to your teammates, but I don't think it's too hard.
Wait, were and when did anyone say Flash is being removed? Is there a link? Why the hell would they remove flash? Too lazy to fix its bugs?


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Hacksaurs

Senior Member

06-05-2010

If you take cleanse, you pretty much HAVE to take flash/ghost.

Taking up two spots for escaping/initiation abilities is just as balanced as those who use exhaust/ignite for killing ability.

I think you're just butthurt someone cleansed your ignite


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stuffed

Member

06-06-2010

Quote:
Let's take a look at Ashe. Assuming that you are playing against her, you will be facing 2 forms of CC:
Frost Shot (Slow)
Enchanted Crystal Arrow (Stun/Slow)

In this case, Cleanse counters Enchanted Crystal Arrow really well but is nonsense against Frost Shot.

Cleanse is hurting those long CD CCs a lot. Not only does it negate a really powerful CC, but it can save your life. However, when up against short CD CCs, Cleanse fails. You cleanse the CC once and get it again a while later.
Frost Shot level 5 slows you by 38%.

Ghost with Haste increases your Movement Speed by 32% + 8%.

From my point of view it's not the job for cleanse to counter short CD CCs, you might rather use ghost+haste for this.

And this should also be the reason why most carries take cleanse+ghost. With that they are able to get away from these 2 forms of CCs.


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Zack1996

Senior Member

06-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffed View Post
Frost Shot level 5 slows you by 38%.

Ghost with Haste increases your Movement Speed by 32% + 8%.

From my point of view it's not the job for cleanse to counter short CD CCs, you might rather use ghost+haste for this.

And this should also be the reason why most carries take cleanse+ghost. With that they are able to get away from these 2 forms of CCs.
Well, the problem here is that Frost Shot slows multiplicatively (from what I understand) and Ghost hastes you addictively, so Frost Shot actually overpowers Ghost. Even if it doesn't, it reduces Ghost to a rather poor summoner spell that grants 2% movement speed, which does not help you escape Ashe in most cases.

Well, I kinda expected the downvotes.

Now, let's talk about the suggestion itself. I personally do not want to make Cleanse worthless/uber. I just want Cleanse to do what it does: Provide champions a way to deal with mass CCs.

One possiblity is for Ultimates to be cleansed by 75% of the duration so that it actually does something, instead of completely failing.

BTW, when I said that Ignite is unaffected, I mean that it is not affected by the suggested Cleanse's debuff duration reduction.


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Galapagos

Senior Member

06-06-2010

Really I think people have transitioned from trying to get only kills to actually playing semi smart. Cleanse is arguably one of the best summoner spells. People that actually play at higher skill levels will realize that living is better than diving a turret for a chance at a kill as low elo players do.

You probably won a few games and now matchmaker put you higher up where people think about their spell choice instead of maxing their damage abilities and face-roll on the keyboard every time an enemy gets within range.


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