The Frustration With Personal Score

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Lagenor

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Senior Member

09-27-2011

Here's an idea, Take away KDA and personal score out of the in-game display, then team-mate would have nothing to ***** about, :P


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srsizzy

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheius View Post
My biggest peeve about the score system is how defense and assists get craptastic scores.

Why does capping and Neutralizing a point give a combined total of 16x the points of defending?

Why does getting the last hit reward a player 3x more points than all the people who made sure the killer survived or nuked them down to low HP?

Why does using support skills give such crappy rates, where even picking up a heal pack would give a better score?


They really need to tone down all the points awarded for aggressiveness and up defensive play scores. At the very least, defending a point should reward 50 points per person you stop. That'd encourage people to hold the **** things instead of gunning off.
/thread on page 2


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brb getting sued

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieuu View Post
This is my typical Nidalee game on the Crystal Scar
stopped reading here


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srsizzy

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenmar View Post
It's not even rewarding defensive play it's just that you CAN'T have a scoring system that rewards GOOD JUDGEMENT. The most important plays are the most subtle of decisions. The choice to go and heal, the choice to zone your opponent from the brush, the choice to simply distract your opponent, and the choice to farm minions for the KEY item to tilt the tide of battle into your favor. These are things that often don't reward ANY points yet are critical factors to the game.

A good deal of players here honestly think cause they get the highest points mean they did the most for the team but it is quite the contrary. Right now most of the points that are given reward BAD judgement and simply just give points for simply being unique factors to a capture point mode. Healing, storm buff, Martyr and being passive sitting on the node doing nothing proactive are all terrible methods to tell players "you are playing capture point correctly and we are going to reward you".

It just goes back to my main criticism of your design and how you as a company look at the MOBA genre and its relation to E-sports. The biggest thing you always miss is that you look at the MOBA genre and see the PVP and PVE elements divided and at ends. You see the PVP as champion team fights and want encourage players to always chase, kill and get the highest score possible. You see the PVE as mandatory objectives that if a champion is too good at they get nerfed or remade because they can either actually complete the PVE objective alone or can monopolize on player neglect when you want the PVE objective to be completed as a team.

The problem with this outlook is that the PVE and PVP are one. The strength of the MOBA is that you turn a mundane PVE objective into a PVP objective by the simple virtue that you actually have an opposing team that is after the same goal as you. While WC3's multiplayer could only really have the goal be deathmatch(to which I wonder why hasn't this been created yet?), the MOBA could take other PVE objectives and turn them from mundane fights against AI such as destroying a nexus or capture point and convert them into dynamic PVP objectives. You not only have to work with four other humans but you must also outwit or through sheer brute force overcome your opponents as both teams focus on the objective.

I can't think of a better example that demonstrates your problem than with your shoutcasting and tournaments as you pursue being recognized as an E-sport. If you actually look back and watch the games you will notice that all the commentary is always on the champions and team fights. Now, put yourself in the shoes of a person who wants to play this game. What do you think they will take away from watching the tournament on how to win, getting champion kills or destroying the nexus? For a person who doesn't play video games at all, it's going to be the former. There is no education or constant coverage telling new viewers HOW TO WIN. That's a huge problem when they do decide that they want to play your product and then be reminded by some veteran that going after champion kills isn't actually how you win. Your shoutcasters have effectively set up the old bait and switch. You promise them dynamic PVP of deathmatch combat, what they get is objective based PVP where one of the last things they should be doing is going for champion kills. These players are going to be turned off knowing that the majority of their time is going to be spent destroying turrets, farming minions or now preventing nodes from being captured. You have effectively deceived your viewers on accident.

You need to go back and cultivate the player base and new players that actually working as a team and defeating your opponents by completing the objective is fun. They need to know if they are watching a tournament for the first time that new viewers will understand what each team needs to do to win.

You also shouldn't be trying to separate the PVP and PVE from the MOBA genre. Yeah sure you do have to worry about champion balance but you shouldn't nerf champs that implement new strategies. One man's backdoor is another man's lane neglect. How many TF players do you know actually take a turret at full health head on by himself and destroy the turret? Not many I bet, and that's just one example. Yeah a champ that can run up to a turret and tank it and solo it from 100% hp to 0% hp is a problem and that's the types of nerfs you should be focused on. Number based nerfs. If a champ's damage output of healing output becomes too strong or weak that should be your main focus of the balance team not preventing strategies utilizing unique champs to flourish.

Embrace the power of the MOBA and create unique and new PVE objectives that players can compete with each other turning them into PVP objectives. Many FPS games have already embraced this like TF2, Unreal, and even Battlefield. Sure you can have a bunch of bots but what makes the MOBA unique is that I am part of a team of players who without my team cannot win the day against another group of people through the conflict develop an enjoyable experience as we see which team for that one game worked better together, had more power, or had the better strategy to claim victory. 100 team fights isn't going to make this game anymore fun unless that is the main objective, you can drive people to play a certain way. Right now, you really aren't teaching people the right way to play. And before you dissent saying there isn't a "right" way to play, then that means I can play this game however I want to play without any sort of recourse of being banned but that's why we have the tribunal because you acknowledges there is a right way to play this game and that's what you should be focused on.

Your youtube video on dominion was a good start because the first thing that appeared what "HOW TO WIN". You need to use that example and have your shoutcasters explain to the viewers how each team can claim victory. To educate and entertain viewers so when they do join a match they will understand how to win, some of the nuance and some of the jargon. Shoutcasters are a wonderful tool of educating new players subconsciously on how to win and much more.
How the hell is this guy's text grayed out. The only feasible answer: forums trolls downvoting intelligent posts.

Oh what a wonderful community.


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brb getting sued

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by srsizzy View Post
How the hell is this guy's text grayed out. The only feasible answer: forums trolls downvoting intelligent posts.
grey text means he hasn't accepted the summoner's code

nooblord


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Rossa Auster

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Senior Member

09-28-2011

3 people on my team bottom vs 1 or 2 of the other team.
You've lost the boneyard
You've captured the boneyard
You've lost the boneyard
You've captured the boneyard
You've lost the boneyard
You've captured the boneyard
You've lost the boneyard
You've captured the boneyard
You've lost the boneyard
You've captured the boneyard
You've lost the boneyard
You've captured the boneyard

Me, lowest score on the list from trying to cap/defend other points: Guy's we need one more trying for the other points.

3 players bottom: STFU always the lowest score people complaining.

Players new to this style of minigame are being rewarded with e-peen points and being taught bad behavior.


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JunSupport

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I'll give you guys a sense of the scale of the problem: If we could create a scoring system that encompassed the rules of "correct" play, what we would do is create bots that maximized their score and unleash them as pro level dominion bots.
It can be better then it is now.

1. I feel assists should grant more points.
---Champs who tend to get more assists then kills tend to have a significantly lower score, even though they're playing very well.

2. Minions should grant 0.2~0.5 points each.
---If someone is killing minions, they ARE technically pressuring a point, that should be rewarded.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
I'll give you guys a sense of the scale of the problem: If we could create a scoring system that encompassed the rules of "correct" play, what we would do is create bots that maximized their score and unleash them as pro level dominion bots.
The system can't be perfect, that is true.

But:
- give some points for spending some time on a point capping it when it gets neutralized/captured in soem time (assisst points based on the time you help)
- give extra points when you are at a point and fight against an enemy (not kiling them). The more enemies or the longer you fight, the more points you get (same for the offensive guy). Rewarding the kill, but not a pushback of a champ is a problem in the score.
The points are divided amonst all champs that fought at the point based on the time they spent there fighting.
- give some points for pushing. Pushing a lane may not be the fastest way, but can be a great way to win a 1v1 on a capture point. Creeps are important, and you may not get rewarded enough when you push and then the creeps take the point while you have to fight elsewhere.


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Rossa Auster

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Senior Member

09-28-2011

I think there needs to be a 'cooldown' of when a point can give points after being turned over. This would help some players understand that zerging one point isn't going to give them the top score and the right to blame their team.


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Inferiarum

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamriddik View Post
fighting to the death and trading with the enemy should be better than running away, surviving, and loosing the tower.
with the right movement on the map you can survive and still trade with the enemy. Its not like you can hold people for long if you have no chance to survive anyway. Ofc if you see a chance to survive you should hold.

Dieing is pretty bad in dominion, and like in SR there is almost never an excuse for it.