The Frustration With Personal Score

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Nokturnalex

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
This is something that was discussed a lot during development. I generally think the personal score system is a positive, but it could certainly use refinement. I play tanks a lot during our development playtests so I can definitely appreciate what you're saying. Many times defensive players that we all agree made great contributions weren't rewarded by the personal score system as much. It's something the designers are looking at.

However, I would say that even if an intangible is not impossible to measure, it can be very difficult to accomplish or make the system too complex. There's definitely a trade-off from adding to the system and we're searching for the right balance.
It's completely superficial and doesn't really take into account every situation in which someone is helping out their team.

Example: Intercepting Enemy Heroes before they can reach your point to stop your teammates from capping it. The entire map would have to be considered when this is happening.

Matyr works if you die but you still must be somewhat near the point. You definitely don't die every time though

Another example would be placing Teemo Mushrooms and Jack in the Boxes in order to disrupt the enemy team and make them chase you, just wasting their time is an effective strategy in helping your teammates cap points.


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Edgecase

Member

09-27-2011

Tossing in a couple suggestions from another thread:

1. Increase the size of the "defense area" GREATLY, roughly halfway to the neighboring point. This lets you stand out of vision (letting your enemy see you standing there is the OPPOSITE of productive), and potentially do some proactive minion wave clearing. If you can make the credit zone non-circular, including the buffs in the jungle nearest the point could legitimately reward people who camp the speed pad for quick response.

2. "First responder" points for being the first player to engage an untapped enemy champion within a friendly point's (greatly expanded) control zone. Alternately, "intercept" points for CCing an untapped enemy outside any control zone.

3. "Against the odds" points in 20 second increments for having more enemies than friendlies within 2000 units. Reflects situations in which you are drawing attention or otherwise forcing the enemy to allocate disproportionate forces to deal with you, whether by diversion or by solid defense.


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XaoGarrent

Senior Member

09-27-2011

I'd like to see personal score moved a bit away from capping and more towards actually doing useful stuff in general. I've been playing Lee Sin alot, and what this essentially means is I'm not the one capping, but the one setting up ambushes and keeping enemies off the cappers. Shoot, this tends to be the case with almost everything I play since everyone wants to cap and I'm always the odd man out playing goalie. For the record, I'm completely cool with this, I enjoy bullying the enemy team and halting their advances. I just wish it awarded points and gold better.

I used to play a Source Mod called Dystopia and I invented a derogatory term for such people. "Decker Humpers." Basically, a Decker was someone who hacked the objectives in that game, which was a cyberspace minigame. You had to have people protect you while you were jacked in at the objective, or the enemy team would kill you to stop you from capping. But some people would "hump" the decker, since you'd only get points for protecting the decker if you were standing close to him, instead of doing the smart thing and defending him outside the decking objective's room so that the enemy couldn't even get close to them. Many games were lost due to point *****s in my time playing.


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Tyroie

Senior Member

09-27-2011

It's kind of funny - to an extent, I find that the K/D/A tends to be a much better indication of usefulness than the score. Obviously it's not perfect, but in general, the team that kills or routs the other team more frequently tends to hold more points, and I think the score system should actually pay more attention to that.

Routs are harder to "tally" than a kill, though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgecase View Post
Tossing in a couple suggestions from another thread:
I adore those ideas.


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Numbat

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Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokturnalex View Post
It's completely superficial and doesn't really take into account every situation in which someone is helping out their team.

Example: Intercepting Enemy Heroes before they can reach your point to stop your teammates from capping it. The entire map would have to be considered when this is happening.

Matyr works if you die but you still must be somewhat near the point. You definitely don't die every time though

Another example would be placing Teemo Mushrooms and Jack in the Boxes in order to disrupt the enemy team and make them chase you, just wasting their time is an effective strategy in helping your teammates cap points.
Completely agree. When people complained about KDA being overrated on SR Riot said they didn't want to use a point system because there were too many intangibles to consider and too many ways to contribute to your team.

Now they come out with this point thing on Dominion which has at least as many intangibles but which is worse than KDA because it's a Riot generated score with Riot generated authority.


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Spitemaster

Senior Member

09-27-2011

So, my last game I got 1515, first place, and I mostly defended bot. Granted, I was something like 7/3/17, but I don't think that defending is that bad of a deal.


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Inferiarum

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamriddik View Post
this would hurt defenders. this would further deter fighting to the death to defend a tower
who says it is good to fight to the death at a tower (most of the time it is not)

i totally agree deaths should be penalized. people die too much in dominion.


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Sergar

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviyor View Post
Captures need toning down a bit; capping a neutral point oftentimes isn't risky given the lack of tower aggro in addition to the fact that the initial base caps are just as valuable as anything else. Also, I've been irritated with the "martyr" bonus (10-20 points) which leads people to think they're contributing by rushing a defended point and dying, or staying to be instagibbed by countless enemies.
Martyr is a pretty good example of why personal score is ambiguous in regards to actual contribution. Many times martyr is a reward for getting ganked or refusing to retreat in when you could have, but there are some characters for whom in martyr is a reward for a good play. The two that come to mind are Karthus and Maokai. Tank Maokai can keep a three man assault squad busy for 10-15 seconds by sitting in his ult at the turret and bashing them all to half health. He'll die and the ult will explode and leave a bunch of weakened people just waiting to be taken out by your roamers. Similarly, Karthus dying on point is 7 seconds no one can cap it. I'd agree that most champions don't have that gameplay, but some do.


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iamriddik

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferiarum View Post
who says it is good to fight to the death at a tower (most of the time it is not)

i totally agree deaths should be penalized. people die too much in dominion.
fighting to the death and trading with the enemy should be better than running away, surviving, and loosing the tower.


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MonCraze

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Member

09-27-2011

I agree with a lot of these statements. The personal score is a great idea, and I think it's well done, but needs some tweaking. One problem I have is that I can cap a point to 90%, get interrupted, and have a teammate run up to finish capping and I get no points for it. Or I'll be capping with a teammate and an enemy comes up to interrupt, so I take the initiative to cc them before they reach both of us. I can't kill that one person, but I allow my ally to successfully cap because I stopped to cc. I shouldn't be penalized for this, if anything, it should be encouraged. I obviously did the right thing there.

As I said, it's a great idea, but it needs a little tweaking.