Post-Patch Udyr Guide

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Potam

Member

06-04-2010

Can we get some clarification and testing on Tiger's 3x damage being applied after crit damage?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HojoZ

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

06-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunkfish View Post
so many infos are wrong, just to name one.
"But now tiger is x3 dmg. so a crit is x6 dmg. so if you get an infinity edge it becomes x7.5 dmg."

tiger stance splits 1 attack to 3 meaning each deal 1/3 damage and only the 1st hit crits... how do you get your 6X DAMAGE and 7.5X DAMAGE-OMFG
/facepalm...
Probably because of this:

Quote:
Activation: On his next attack, Udyr swipes at his target, dealing 1.8/2.1/2.4/2.7/3 times his attack damage over 2 seconds.
But from what I understand, this just puts a DoT by a certain amount based on AD, and unaffected by crit; thus, I think the 6x dmg isn't really what happens.

However, I think you're wrong about the crit mechanism on tiger stance.
I think I read somewhere all 3 attacks would crit, but only the first hit would display as crit.

I may be wrong. Somebody that understands the mechanics of Udyr should clarify this for us, or link us to such appropriate information.

Please and thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Manse

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-04-2010

Good guide. I'm not sure how Tiger works, but I know it hurts people. I had a game where I was getting fed (yeah, udyr...fed...) and had my boots, locket and around 3k gold near the 25 minute mark. Bought infinity, just for giggles.

Short version: It wasn't worth it as a first item. The damage was nice, but I didn't have enough crit to make it worthwhile. All I know as far as the mechanics went, it was friggin' nice when it crit.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CQReborn

Senior Member

06-04-2010

Great guide, I just started playing Udyr and I LOVE him, such a fun character.
And the bit about speed making you danger is very true,
the other night I was in a fight at the enemies base, I started hauling ass outta there with about 50ish hp, Gangplank came speeding after me like the road runner in hot pursuit. He had boots of mobility, ghost + raise morale. I thought I was done for, but I kept alternating between bear stance + turtle stance and I managed to escape

By the way, does sheen effect the damage from tiger stance activation?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Talis Est Vita

Junior Member

06-04-2010

Great Udyr guide. Maybe I should make a mummy guide.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AFKray

Senior Member

06-04-2010

I am currently working on updating my guide especially in light of the new items produced, more specifically the Gunblade.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kilt

Senior Member

06-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by HojoZ View Post
Probably because of this:



But from what I understand, this just puts a DoT by a certain amount based on AD, and unaffected by crit; thus, I think the 6x dmg isn't really what happens.

However, I think you're wrong about the crit mechanism on tiger stance.
I think I read somewhere all 3 attacks would crit, but only the first hit would display as crit.

I may be wrong. Somebody that understands the mechanics of Udyr should clarify this for us, or link us to such appropriate information.

Please and thanks.
Each hit of tiger stance has it's own individual crit chance, but only the first hit will show as an actually critical the others will just have boosted damage. Because of this crit isn't very good with tiger stance, as it essentially splits your crit chance, and damage into thirds.

Think of it like this.

Udyr:
100 AD

Say you use a regular attack in bear stance, you'll crit once for 200 damage. On the other hand tiger will hit 3 times with split damage, if one of those hits crits you'll hit once for 66, and twice for 33 for a total of 132 damage.

One crit while in turtle/bear/phoenix = 200 damage

One crit while in tiger = 132 damage

two crits while in turtle/bear/phoenix = 400 damage

two crits while in tiger = 165 damage

three crits while in turtle/bear/phoenix = 600 damage

three crits while in tiger = 198

So, for final summation, tiger works well with crits only if you get lucky, as you need to crit 3 times in a row just to land the full crit damage of a single attack -- however it would be devastating at 100% crit chance.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tewnam

Senior Member

06-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilt View Post
Each hit of tiger stance has it's own individual crit chance, but only the first hit will show as an actually critical the others will just have boosted damage. Because of this crit isn't very good with tiger stance, as it essentially splits your crit chance, and damage into thirds.

Think of it like this.

Udyr:
100 AD

Say you use a regular attack in bear stance, you'll crit once for 200 damage. On the other hand tiger will hit 3 times with split damage, if one of those hits crits you'll hit once for 66, and twice for 33 for a total of 132 damage.

One crit while in turtle/bear/phoenix = 200 damage

One crit while in tiger = 132 damage

two crits while in turtle/bear/phoenix = 400 damage

two crits while in tiger = 165 damage

three crits while in turtle/bear/phoenix = 600 damage

three crits while in tiger = 198

So, for final summation, tiger works well with crits only if you get lucky, as you need to crit 3 times in a row just to land the full crit damage of a single attack -- however it would be devastating at 100% crit chance.
While your numbers are right, your conclusion is completely wrong. Yes, 1 single crit in tiger will deal less than 1 single crit in bear or phoenix. Except you forgot that, because tiger splits every attack into 3 attacks, you will attack, and thus also crit, 3 times as often.

For every crit you make in bear or phoenix, you will crit 3 times in tiger. You could argue that burst damage is lessened, and that is true to a certain extent, The amount of damage gained via critical strikes is taken from big spikes per hit and spread over more time, but the total DPS is the same. All this is discounting other factors such as tiger's attack speed buff; once that is considered, it's pretty obvious that tiger will do more single target AD-based DPS.

That being said, I agree that the passive/active bonuses for tiger should be swapped. This would allow a pure DPS tiger+phoenix rotation to be rather effective and perhaps a good hybrid build will emerge due to that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheMagnificent

Member

06-04-2010

Ok this is a quick reply. I'll try out any suggestions I liked and get back on those.

The main issue I'm reading here is the tiger crits. I admit my math may have been wrong, but the fact is tiger dishes out an enormous amount of damage, more than any other stance can match. With cooldown reduction you can cycle through tiger exclusively, or at least activate it almost immediately after a tiger or bear, so you can bring the proc up almost every three seconds, indefinitely.

If you do not have a huge amount of crit chance (my build even with infinity edge tops out at approx 30%) the higher number of hits is beneficial to your overall chance of scoring crits. ESPECIALLY when you factor in the 70% attack speed buff. So sure you lose damage on the crits but you are hitting a crazy amount of times. your 1/second AS becomes 1.7, and then you get three shots to crit per attack. Thats like 5 chances to crit every second.

And the fact is your tiger CAN crit. I stake my life on it. Theres no way people could drop like i've dropped them if that proc doesnt crit.

And sheen could proc on the same attack as the tiger proc, but would not factor into any multiplicative damage.

Anyway good on you to anybody who's used this to make udyr work for them, thanks to everybody who's saying good s**t and good luck to anybody trying it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mr Wind Up Bird

Senior Member

06-05-2010

Don't really like it. Let's start with the runes. Progressive cooldown only catches up with flat cooldown at level 13. The early/mid game advantage of flat cooldown is a lot better than the late game from progressive. crit chance is fine, I suppose, and dodge is excellent, but 10% crit chance/20% atk speed is only possible if seals, glyphs, and quints are all AS. Seems foolish.

Skills. The second rank of phoenix stance is better than the second rank of turtle stance for jungling. For that matter, each additional rank of phoenix gives more damage on the active than each additional rank of tiger. tiger is only better than phoenix if you're building AD or focused on killing towers. Really, though, that can be someone else's job.

Items. You talk about tiger crits(can the active actually crit? You say you're sure but it would be nice to see some confirmation), but there are no crit items in the build until you already have 6000 gold of items. Also, ninja tabi are almost always worse for udyr than mercury treads. You're really vulnerable to CC, since you have to run up to the other team to do anything.

Gameplay. This part is pretty good. The save your carries/disable the other team part is nice. The worst part is section 2) WTFnuking. This is really the same as section 4) DPS hunters, except for the part where you advocate punching the tank in the face, which I guess is ok, since it's always desirable to keep him from initiating.


123