Who killed MF's mom?

Swain 62 53.91%
Gangplank 53 46.09%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

The murder of Miss Fortune's mom.

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MajesticRaven

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

He leaned in after she appeared. She was giving the appearence as Jarvan in a balcony, and after he called her out the entire illusion just faded and she walked up next to him. Yes they are phsyically in there, but I don't think they have protective spells. By the sounds of it Champions just walk in and push open a door. It's easy to assume that the summoner was prepared to greet Jarvan to give his judgement, but Swain showed up early, beat the **** out of the summoner, and then stood there waiting.

I don't think LeBlanc can disguise other people, as far as I know she's the deceiver of solo things. Swain is a Tactician of Noxus, he has no need for Bilgewater. He entered Noxus as a boy and has Beatrice at his side the entire time. On top of that, he's had the limp since he was a boy. I think MF would have noticed that the one assaulting her home had a crutch and an enormous bird.

Swain has been a powerful man of Noxus using his magic and being on the front lines his whole life.

Besides, why would there be gunfire in her house, if the sole person in there wasn't using a gun? Doesn't that...defeat the purpose? She would also more than recognize Swain in the League. That burns an image into your head when someone murders your family and you see the one that did it.


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Insane Wheatley

Member

09-25-2011

Remember, she didn't actually see her mother's assailant. She only remembers the Red Eyes. She has no reason to recognize Swain more than she does Gangplank, the two of them being prime suspects because of this.


As for reasoning, why not cause a stir in Bilgewater? From a military standpoint, which is what Swain is constantly thinking in, he could usurp control from it being a simple den of pirates. Ruling over it with Noxian authority, and thus acquiring possibly the strongest navy Runeterra had ever seen.

Demacia is on the west coast, if you remember. Why wouldn't someone of such military genius such as Swain not realize the benefits of attack from two fronts? This could have been a precursor event in and of itself.

As for limps, they're quite easy to hide. Until one actually has need of a crutch of some kind, you learn that walking normally for short bursts isn't all that outside the realm of impossible.


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MajesticRaven

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

She saw Red Eyes, and a Bandana apparently. Swain doesn't have red eyes...

He's currently got his focus on taking out Jarvan, and taking over Noxus. I think working on Bilgewater before he's risen in the ranks (Simply by killing some random girls mum as well, lot of good that does?) is just kind of random. At the moment I don't think Swain wants to destroy Demacia, he just wants to kill Jarvan and take over Noxus. Besides, even with a powerful navy, another declaration of War and we'll just end up with a water-based Field of Justice next to Demacia :<


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Zhanael

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajesticRaven View Post
He leaned in after she appeared. She was giving the appearence as Jarvan in a balcony, and after he called her out the entire illusion just faded and she walked up next to him. Yes they are phsyically in there, but I don't think they have protective spells. By the sounds of it Champions just walk in and push open a door. It's easy to assume that the summoner was prepared to greet Jarvan to give his judgement, but Swain showed up early, beat the **** out of the summoner, and then stood there waiting.
The Champions are able to push open the doors because it's their judgment. If anyone other than the Champion in question or the summoner assigned to him/her/it were to try to enter, I would assume the doors would remain closed.

A judgment likely won't happen without the summoner to perform it. If it was Swain as Swain doing what you said, they wouldn't be admitted into the chamber, and there'd be no judgment to have been recorded. It may well be what you said--but with Swain in disguise as the Bilgewater summoner.

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I don't think LeBlanc can disguise other people, as far as I know she's the deceiver of solo things.
Illusionary chains. And casting an illusion spell on other people is definitely part of mastering illusionary magic.

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Swain is a Tactician of Noxus, he has no need for Bilgewater.
Could you explain this please? I don't seem to understand.

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He entered Noxus as a boy and has Beatrice at his side the entire time. On top of that, he's had the limp since he was a boy.
...and therefore had a lifetime to work out his limp. Most of the time, I think the cane's just for show (just look at him dance!).

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I think MF would have noticed that the one assaulting her home had a crutch and an enormous bird.
She never saw anything more than red eyes over a "rogue's bandana" and her dead mother. That's all she knows of what happened.

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Swain has been a powerful man of Noxus using his magic and being on the front lines his whole life.
You don't get to swaggering on the front lines without becoming someone important--or someone expendable. Sorry, but that's how the military works. He's powerful now, but he wasn't always that way, and once again, you don't learn strategy entirely from books. He had to be out there in order to learn what works and what doesn't.

Getting into battles on the sea involves enlisting in the navy.

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Besides, why would there be gunfire in her house, if the sole person in there wasn't using a gun? Doesn't that...defeat the purpose? She would also more than recognize Swain in the League. That burns an image into your head when someone murders your family and you see the one that did it.
Again, Sarah only saw red eyes over a "rogue's bandanna," and then sustained a head injury severe enough to knock her out. See if you remember what happened immediately before you're knocked out the next time it happens to you. The image of the attacker's eyes may remain, but the surrounding face apparently does not.

Her mother would have been firing at her assailant in defense, as he was advancing on her. Wouldn't you try to prevent anything from happening to you before they get close, if you had the opportunity?


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Insane Wheatley

Member

09-25-2011

Honestly, it is a community of pirates. Wouldn't you live knowing at any moment you could be robbed, and want to defend yourself?

If you can't picture Swain using a gun, picture Miss Fortune's Mother.


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MajesticRaven

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

Oi vey, you're determined one ain't you.

Alright look.

Swain has been working his way through Noxus for quite some time, shortly after he was a boy. He's been with Beatrice the whole time, rising in ranks, always on the frontline of war.

Killing a random women in Bilgewater is not a war. There is no tactic involved, there is no purpose. Swain isn't the type of person to waste time with strangers, he has bigger fish to fry than random Bilgewater citizens.

If infact what you're saying is true, and there's an insane number of spells and the likes blocking the summoning chamber from those not invited, then how does Swain enter with the appearance of a summoner? I think a spell (which doesn't use any senses) can tell if the person entering is the real deal or not. LeBlanc's magic isn't perfect, as we've seen with her reflection on Swain's chest plate. Even if she "Disguised" Swain as a summoner, the doors wouldn't open for him if they were enchanted to only open for select people.

Anywho, that's all off topic.

Swain has bigger fish to fry like I said. His aim from the start has been the top, executing Boram Darkwill to take his place and all of that. I don't think he's taken any "Trading Routes" through Bilgewater and just happened to kill some random women. There was no Navy battle involved, there was no military plight at all, just a random murder. If there was any more to the scenario we probably would have heard about it. If an all out war was waged that required military / naval tactics, Bilgewater wouldn't be standing, Noxus would've probably wiped them out.

Nothing happened besides the murder, or she would've remembered burning buildings and ALOT more blood. There was no military significance to killing a bilgewater women. Swain wouldn't waste time like that.


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Glitchead

Junior Member

09-25-2011

I'm willing to bet that time will tell us. That is all. Until we can know for sure, 'tis not well to make assumptions. Who knows, the LoL writers may pull a WTFHAXXORZ on us and bring in a new champion who was the murderer and we'd all be wrong.


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Zhanael

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajesticRaven View Post
Oi vey, you're determined one ain't you.

Alright look.

Swain has been working his way through Noxus for quite some time, shortly after he was a boy. He's been with Beatrice the whole time, rising in ranks, always on the frontline of war.
Yes, and likely serving in the navy as well as the army to gain experience. There are "frontlines" in a naval skirmish, too, y'know. :P

Not sure how this doesn't bolster my argument as opposed to detracting from it. Because for the third time, a person has to experience battle to really learn anything from it, including strategy. Swain wasn't always a genius--no one was. Maybe Beatrice could have imparted knowledge to him, but he still had to learn how to use that knowledge, and again, that only happens by experiencing it.

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Killing a random women in Bilgewater is not a war. There is no tactic involved, there is no purpose. Swain isn't the type of person to waste time with strangers, he has bigger fish to fry than random Bilgewater citizens.
Unless it's part of a bigger plan. And I never said MF's home was the only one he struck, nor her mother the only person killed. As Zed mentioned, it's to Noxus' advantage to hold a strong naval presence, and if by controlling or allying with Bilgewater that they could achieve it, they'd have to plan some way to accomplish that task.

Swain disguises himself as a pirate. In disguise, Swain makes raids along the trade routes and the nearby settlements on the Blue Flame Islands, over which Bilgewater sees. Noxus then offers alliance with Bilgewater for mutual protection, and access to the naval strength of the loosely-organized pirates.

Or Beatrice was hungry. Meat from non-sentient creatures probably isn't as satisfying or empowering as flesh from sentient creatures, and every man on a ship is required for it to run efficiently, so killing any one of the crew was out of the question. Maybe not as likely an explanation, but still an option.

Quote:
If infact what you're saying is true, and there's an insane number of spells and the likes blocking the summoning chamber from those not invited, then how does Swain enter with the appearance of a summoner? I think a spell (which doesn't use any senses) can tell if the person entering is the real deal or not. LeBlanc's magic isn't perfect, as we've seen with her reflection on Swain's chest plate. Even if she "Disguised" Swain as a summoner, the doors wouldn't open for him if they were enchanted to only open for select people.
Strong illusionary magic would be able to mimic every facet of a person, even to other magic. LeBlanc was able to mimic Cataclysm even though she herself doesn't possess the ability, after all.

The spells on the doors would have been programmed for Swain, however, because they were programmed for the Bilgewater summoner who took over the Demacian summoner's position. That wasn't done on the down-low--the League appointed the Bilgewater summoner in place of the Demacian summoner; I don't imagine a single Judgment is arranged without the League's approval. Whether Swain had made up the persona, or was mimicking the summoner's form after disposing of the original (similar to what's speculated to have happened to Jarvan currently) is still indecisive.

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Anywho, that's all off topic.

Swain has bigger fish to fry like I said. His aim from the start has been the top, executing Boram Darkwill to take his place and all of that. I don't think he's taken any "Trading Routes" through Bilgewater and just happened to kill some random women. There was no Navy battle involved, there was no military plight at all, just a random murder. If there was any more to the scenario we probably would have heard about it. If an all out war was waged that required military / naval tactics, Bilgewater wouldn't be standing, Noxus would've probably wiped them out.Nothing happened besides the murder, or she would've remembered burning buildings and ALOT more blood. There was no military significance to killing a bilgewater women. Swain wouldn't waste time like that.
Again, he would if there was some gain to it. In a scenario like I offered above, there was a lot of gain from it. A new ally, and access to the most vicious and tenacious navy on Runeterra? YESPLZ.

Yes, he's always had his eyes for the top, but he wasn't stupid enough to think it'd happen instantly. He had to earn it. And he earned it by small victories that led into bigger ones. That's how things work, even for him. If, by his actions, Noxus gained a strong ally, that's a pretty nice victory, don't you think?

Riot didn't make clear whether MF's family lived alone, or were just closest to the coast and therefore easiest to access from the sea. They may have been the first victims in a strike-and-run mission, or there was more and Sarah just didn't see it because she was knocked out (and then somehow wandered into the sea. Riot's got a few inconsistencies laying around, and this's one of them).

Insofar as hearing more about it...how much do we know about the time before the League was formed? The Rune Wars? How much do we know about the time inbetween the formation of the League, and when the game was actually created? How much do we know about what's even going on outside of what's reported in the JoJ?

We don't. Riot's team is talented, but there are quite a few huge gaps in the lore they have yet to fill in. LoL's lore absolutely minimal compared to other games--and the reason why is because this is a MOBA, not an RPG. When a game's focus is on the gameplay, and not on telling a story, the lore falls a little short. Such is the case here.

A good mystery has many layers. By and large, I think Swain having an alternate Bilgewater persona might be one of those layers.


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DFxKazuto

Senior Member

09-25-2011

...It could have been Gangplank's father(read GP's Lore)...I thought we'd already had this discussion. If the judgement is a recollection of memory, and if that was really Gangplank in MF's Judgement, (assuming Gangplank to be younger than 18 at that point) then Gangplank was waiting for his dad who happened to be pillaging the village and ended up killing MF's mother.

I'm sure there was already a discussion for this...>___>


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Zhanael

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

Ee-yup. :P And yeah, GP's father Vincent is the most likely candidate, I'm not debating that. I just had my own theory about Swain and then this thread had GP vs. Swain and I jumped on the chance. Heh. :P