AP needs better Dominion items

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Pyrite Illusion

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Having played Lux and Morgana in dominion I find that I end up having to hug my towers against any AD champ, not because I can't do damage but if they get to me their life steel and damage will shread me is seconds.
The main thing I thing AP's need in Dominion is an item that provides spell vamp and either hp or ap. Like the mages equilivant to Sanguine Blade.
And in this mode Banshee's Veil would help mages more than it would AD's because once a mage gets hit by cc its game over in dominion.


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Zeful

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akouma View Post
AD has 6 Dominion-exclusive items (out of 11, in other words, over 50% of the items). AP has two (slightly less than 20% of them), one of which is the equivalent of Doran's Ring for Dominion and AD has an equivalent. The other three are fairly universal, BUT one of them makes AP almost totally useless against someone that has it. Now, Prospector's Ring is fine. Don't change it, but Hextech sweeper sucks. Since no one is going to ever get Hextech Sweeper against non-stealth enemies, AP essentially has ONE Dominion item.

Since there's an item that makes AP almost useless against someone that has it, AP nets absolutely no new items. ("+1" for Prospector's Ring, "-1" for Odyn's Veil, "+1" for Hextech Sweeper, "-1" for it being useless.)

And I think I know exactly why you don't have more for AP in Dominion. It's because of Rabadon's Deathcap. Rabadon's Deathcap makes it so any AP item that adds more than 40 or so passable because it now adds just shy of 50 instead. So any items you add have to either be weak independently or wind up being too good when combined with Deathcap. So why not make an item that works similarly to Deathcap but a little weaker and cheaper, disable Deathcap, then make new exciting Dominion items? Seriously AP needs a LOT of love for Dominion.
Just a quick note, of those 6 ad exclusive items, 2 of them are replacements for items removed from the mode, 1 is supposed to be in that group but isn't (you can still buy Frozen Mallet), and 1 is the Doran's replacement: The other two are attack speed items that deal very little damage on their own. The lightbringer provides 20 damage, and Ionic Spark is a Flat Magic Damage attack.

In comparison the only item that AP characters can't access in Dominion is Mejai's.


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Thrackerzod

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeful View Post
Just a quick note, of those 6 ad exclusive items, 2 of them are replacements for items removed from the mode, 1 is supposed to be in that group but isn't (you can still buy Frozen Mallet), and 1 is the Doran's replacement: The other two are attack speed items that deal very little damage on their own. The lightbringer provides 20 damage, and Ionic Spark is a Flat Magic Damage attack.

In comparison the only item that AP characters can't access in Dominion is Mejai's.
I would argue that many of the items replacing previous AD ones are flat-out better, though. The only thing that makes them balanced is the fact that you can't get so fed that you'll have full build while enemies have three items. Sanguine Blade puts Bloodthirster to shame, for example. AD got an effective net gain in items if you give +1 for each new option, -1 for each new counter, -1 for a new item being useless, and -1 for each item they can no longer use. (+6 for new items, -I believe 4 for removals, +0 for no new counters, +0 because all the items are actually good) whereas if you put subtraction for replacements into the equation, AP has a net LOSS. That's not remotely fair because AD is crazy-strong in Dominion with those items and AP is pretty well useless. The only primary casters worth a **** right now are Ryze and Akali because of that bull.


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Rocket27

Member

09-22-2011

At least with how it stands, with most melee stacking health and AP casters not being able to get the AP they need to counter said health... some other items would be appreciated.


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Jadarok

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Senior Member

09-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akouma View Post
AD has 6 Dominion-exclusive items (out of 11, in other words, over 50% of the items). AP has two
A lot of those items are just replacements for very similar items in SR. They are just remakes so they actually work. I don't think there is any more or less items in Dominion verses SR..not counting the Prospectors gear and wards, which are kinda neutral anyways.

Quote:
The only primary casters worth a **** right now are Ryze and Akali because of that bull.
Haven't you seen Morg yet in Crystal Scar?


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Thrackerzod

Senior Member

09-22-2011

I actually have seen Morg in Crystal Scar. But I've only ever seen her get piled on like the initial scenes in a rape fetish p*rno.


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Darxio

Member

09-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akouma View Post
The only primary casters worth a **** right now are Ryze and Akali because of that bull.
Nobody is giving Swain any credit right now. FANTASTIC on defense, man. Just go bird form, aoe the **** out of attackers to stop their assault on your point, drain your mana by leaving bird form ON in the fight(don't turn it off until EVERYONE is dead or you run out), recall back to base to refill it(with the quicker recall), and get right back into the action. I carry revive and ghost on my Swain.

Building mana regen on mages is stupid in dominion. You should be building max mana and AP.

What I WOULD like, however, is a dominion-exclusive item that gives AP and movespeed and isn't a lich bane. It's true, mages are slow. It'd help so much.


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Zeta

Senior Member

09-22-2011

There are two reasons casters kind of suck on Dominion:

1) Nothing is ever going to replace Golem buff in terms of a boost to casters.

2) There aren't any real mobility items for casters.

There needs to be an item sort of like Entropy's Lizard Buff itemization but for casters, and a good caster mobility item.


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ArbatrazSquizz

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Protip: Dominion meta =/= SR meta.

Your builds from SR aren't going to work on Dominion, nor will the same kind of builds.

Backing takes 5 seconds, by the time you factor in running down the stairs, 10 seconds, and it's what, an additional 20 seconds to cross the map?

As someone else said, stop trying to build for sustain in a game mode that is about bursting. Build for burst damage. People are stacking health/mana because the goal is to survive a burst and counter burst, then back and repeat.

You don't need a tear. You don't need an RoA. You need Rylai's. You need prospectors. You might have to actually pick up a hard tank item, and then fill the rest out with lich/deathcap/tome/etc.

I've seen AP do JUST fine on CS -- you're just doing it wrong.


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Jibril13

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garzek View Post
Protip: Dominion meta =/= SR meta.

Your builds from SR aren't going to work on Dominion, nor will the same kind of builds.

Backing takes 5 seconds, by the time you factor in running down the stairs, 10 seconds, and it's what, an additional 20 seconds to cross the map?

As someone else said, stop trying to build for sustain in a game mode that is about bursting. Build for burst damage. People are stacking health/mana because the goal is to survive a burst and counter burst, then back and repeat.

You don't need a tear. You don't need an RoA. You need Rylai's. You need prospectors. You might have to actually pick up a hard tank item, and then fill the rest out with lich/deathcap/tome/etc.

I've seen AP do JUST fine on CS -- you're just doing it wrong.
and as soon as you back, the point you were just defending gets captured