Winning team is invincible to point loss

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VictoryGarenteed

Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailius View Post
Could you elaborate on what the slight positive slope is that the losing team has? I've sort of felt it, and it's a little frustrating in a way, but it'd be nice to have a discrete answer. (I suspect it's more than "once you're at less than 100 nexus points you don't lose points to champion deaths")
Seconded.


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Sorak Obama

Senior Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MehtaMezhan View Post
I strongly disagree.
If you're holding majority turrets for most of the game, have a strong point lead, and momentarily lose majority rule... how is that not "doing well"?

I feel like "amazing comebacks" are interesting, just in some cases not warranted. Consider fun versus anti-fun: sure, it's great to make a huge comeback, but how frustrating is it for the opposing who had a strong lead, yet lost the entire match due to (say) an unlucky fight?

Maybe I'm alone in this, but it feels bananas to go from a score like 300-60 to 0-60.
This happened 2-3 times in the six (or so) games I tried yesterday.

That felt arbitrary, and really turned me off on the game mode.
And how fun is it for the team that got stomped all game? If you held the majority of points all game it means you got lazy and they took advantage of that.

On a side note i've noticed that the team that takes the lead early seems to at some point in the game blow itn by the losing team making either a 5 man push down an entire lane or doing some interesting slipt/ninja pushing.

Edit for being unable to type on a laptop properly


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Dire Drenz

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Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailius View Post
Could you elaborate on what the slight positive slope is that the losing team has? I've sort of felt it, and it's a little frustrating in a way, but it'd be nice to have a discrete answer. (I suspect it's more than "once you're at less than 100 nexus points you don't lose points to champion deaths")
I believe what he's saying is simply this: As you gain more control points, your team have more ground to cover with fewer people. So, the better you're team is doing (control point-wise), the harder it is to fully defend all your owned points.

If both teams aim strictly for a 3-cap, with the 2 closest points to Nexus, and fight over windmill, the stronger team should come out on top every time though.


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Jozrael

QA Analyst

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09-23-2011
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailius View Post
Could you elaborate on what the slight positive slope is that the losing team has? I've sort of felt it, and it's a little frustrating in a way, but it'd be nice to have a discrete answer. (I suspect it's more than "once you're at less than 100 nexus points you don't lose points to champion deaths")
The slope I meant was simply in the degree you are winning. If you're trying to hold 4 points, it is HARD, unless the other team is not exploiting your weakness). If they ignore your back two points and just contest the nearer ones, well...that's poor play on their part. While I view the <125 points = no point less for point control shift or kills as similar, both teams encounter it equally on their road to victory so I feel it's something of a misnomer. I think it's a way of emphasizing the importance of the lategame.


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IkomaTanomori

Senior Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozrael View Post
If you lost, they controlled more turrets than you for longer. Even a 5cap is not going to end the game if you had above 50-70 points left and you're able to wrest 2 points fairly quickly. "Momentarily losing majority rule" is going to bring that 300 to like...250. Max. Unless we have different definitions of momentary.

I've never seen a game of Dominion decided by a single fight. It's because there's a slight positive slope depending on how well you are doing. In standard MOBA play there is a negative slope, aka snowballing. The more you are winning, the easier it is to win because you're now stronger. In something like a standard fps, there is a neutral slope. Winning simply means you are that many points ahead of the enemy that they will need to come back by. In Dominion, if you're trying to hold 4 points you are spread thinnn.
I like this idea of difficulty slope. The idea of mechanics that consistently work the same way for all players on both sides, yet by doing so slightly favor the underdog... That really keeps the game interesting!


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FiddleProof

Junior Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorak Obama View Post
and how fun is it dfor the team that gpot stomped all game? If you held the majority of points all game it means you got lazy and they took advantage of that.
That really doesn't make sense to me.
If you're losing, you're losing.... I don't see how a chance re-cap is "laziness" on the winning team's part.

Expecting perfection is kinda silly.


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VictoryGarenteed

Member

09-23-2011

Personally, I found Dominion to be emotionally draining.
The "emphasized" end game really just means the game can swing like a metronome.

That's not skill, that's not teamwork, that's just... shenanigans. It ruined the excitement for me.


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Cyxe

Senior Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MehtaMezhan View Post
I see what you're saying, but my point was that your team may be doing quite well in terms of both KDR and control, but if you lose that critical 3-cap, you can definitely hold onto said 3-cap while dying a silly amount of times. It's incredibly frustrating to be trading blows, and doing well, but not well enough to cap a single tower.

Meanwhile, if this mechanic didn't exist, your team would have probably won several times over via point loss due to deaths, thus rewarding you for teamwork (which I thought was the point of Dominion).



I did mention that in my original post
OK now I get your point. What you should be asking Riot is if there's any way we can extend the respawn timer just a TAD, and only after a certain point in the game.

Edit: I still disagree with you and I love it just the way it is. but feel free to feel however you feel.


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MehtaMezhan

Senior Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycix View Post
OK now I get your point. What you should be asking Riot is if there's any way we can extend the respawn timer just a TAD, and only after a certain point in the game.
That is actually a great idea.
How about, past a certain point, each death starts adding slightly to your respawn timer?

Obviously less than in Summoner's Rift... but enough that if a team is working together well and scoring kills, the game rewards them for doing well.
This would prevent the "bad team luck-caps to victory" issue.


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IkomaTanomori

Senior Member

09-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiddleProof View Post
That really doesn't make sense to me.
If you're losing, you're losing.... I don't see how a chance re-cap is "laziness" on the winning team's part.

Expecting perfection is kinda silly.
What is a "chance" re-cap? Who rolls the dice that determine it?

If your team has 3 points, but no champions on any of them, and the enemy bursts out of the middle of the map and starts capping... it's not chance that loses you your lead.

If you have 5 points, and 2 are undefended, it's not chance that the enemy shows up there - it's the fact that everyone has vision of the outer ring! Always!

I fail to see the element of chance here. I definitely see elements of tunnel vision, but not so much chance.