Karma: Underpowered, or underused?

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Farmville

Senior Member

09-21-2011

So I want to learn to play support, and Karma is the only champ I have that really fits that role. I bought her a while back randomly... idk why...

Anyway, I never see anyone play her, ever. Is it because she's bad at what she does, or is she like Maokai and good, just underused?

I've used her before and found it to be a lot of fun to basically make my carry even more carryish... her shield/AoE heal seem good..

So what's the deal with Karma?


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kaleb bartlett

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Senior Member

09-21-2011

i think it's because she doesn't have a massive ult to pop on people and the mantraed parts of the spells are kinda lackluster. that doesn't mean she's underpowered, just not as huge of a game changer as champs with a real ult.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

09-21-2011

She's good, just difficult to place on a team because she's 1/2 support 1/2 AP Carry. She's very similar to nidalee in a lot of respects (Meta wise). Try playing her solo-top or as a support on bot.


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Kikhan

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Senior Member

09-21-2011

She is OP in the lane phase and weaker in the team fight phase. She winds up having 1 heal and one dmg nuke for team fighs ult wise. This makes her less effective as a support in the late game. They need to give her a 3rd ult stack with a longer cd on the stacks but no one listens to me.


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JoeDuo

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Karma is good.
But there are many points about Karma that you need to understand.

1. She's not a 'Support' Support, she's an AP Support. What I mean is that many ability in the games do NOT scale with items. Stuns, silence, slows, knockups/knockbacks, roots, stats boosts, etc. all do not scale with items, which allows some support to be fully effective without expensive item builds.
Karma abilities do scale with AP, she has 5 AP scalings, and her only ability that does not scale with items is her small speed modifier on W.
So Karma needs some farm to be able to both nuke AND support effectively.
This make her not fit too well in the current meta.

2. She's a good support for beefy/tanky teams, but bad for teams with squishies.
Her main support abilities (her shield and her heal) only provide flat HP.
If you shield your glass cannon carry for 600 HP, it won't help very much if he's taking true damage.
Other support generally provide more than just HP, Soraka for example gives +125 armor for 5 seconds on her heal, and that is more likely to save the carry than the heal portion itself.
Some support will have stuns, knockups, etc. to allow your carries to unload swiftly on their target without the target escaping or retaliating.
Even more importantly, her heal scales with her team's max hp. The more max hp she and her allies have, the more hp they can potentially have lost, the stronger her heal can become.
This means Karma is a very good support for teams with lots of HP, Armor and MR, but she's not so good for balanced teams with glass cannons and tanks.

3. Karma is deceptively hard to use. Most Karma players THINK they can play her. This is mostly due to all of her abilities being so flexible, meaning it's very hard for you to use her abilities without contributing in some way, but that does not mean you're not wasting most of her potential.

3.a. The greatest pitfall when playing Karma is mantra management.
Too many players use her mantra like they're normal abilities, but they are not, they are an Ultimate.
Yet, because they farm by 'spamming' R-E in the laning phase, they (and by 'they' I also mean 'I') usually take the bad habit of spamming her Mantras in team battles instead of smartly using them at the most appropriate time.
As a rule of thumb, either only use her mantra on Q or only use her mantra on E, depending on what her team needs the most between sustain and magic damage.
You can only use her mantra, on average, once every 3.33 Qs or once every 2 Es, so even once you wised to not to spam her mantras on all her abilities, remember that you only need to use her mantra when the mantra effect would be most beneficial.
Unlike other ults, you do not need to use your mantras the second they are available; you can charge a second mantra while the first is ready, so you can afford to wait a bit without wasting cooldown.

3.b. Avoid wasting her normal abilities only for the sake of using the mantra effect. Shield bombing a minion or an ally that's not under attack is not usually a smart thing to do, neither is shooting Heavenly Wave back at your team instead of at the enemy team. Use the full potential of your abilities.

3.c. You NEED to be able to use Spirit Bond effectively, it is an Area of Effect damage/slow/speed buff. A Karma that can use Spirit Bond as an AoE is much stronger than a Karma that uses Spirit Bond as a single target slow/speed buff.


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bylobog44

Senior Member

09-22-2011

I played Karma a number of games when she was free - I was wildly inconsistent with her.

She is more difficult to play - AND - to play with (other players) than other supports.

I was pushing with a Tryndamere and we got ganked by Ryze and Xin. We beat up Xin pretty bad but didn't kill him and then Shen ULTed in. I shielded myself (cause Tryn has his ult) and tried to Spirit Bond Tryndamere but he fled too fast out of range. Ryze got Rune Prison on me as soon as my shield went down. I killed Xin, but Ryze and unloaded the whole buffet and Shen vorpalled me for the kill.

While I was respawning, I chat to Tryn: "If you had stayed in my range, I could Spirit Bond and get us both out of there" he answered "Tryn doesn't need speed boost". I think its hard for some players to understand that the move speed buff works both ways as Karma is very slow without it.

However the same game, I had a number of missed heals, bonds and wasted my mantra numerous times.

Of the "newer" champions I have played, I find Karma and Orianna have the most difficult mechanics to master.


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BloodsHaven

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Member

09-22-2011

way underplayed period...................

same for Cassiopeia i think shes OP as well just cause people don't play them often doesn't mean their not op. But hey no complaining here as long as people are not *****in about it they will never get nerfs <3


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Carados

Senior Member

09-22-2011

Underpowered.

Her level 6 spells are equal to most people's level 5. At most she gets 3 mantras off in a fight. Her E Mantra, the best one on her kit, is roughtly equal to a regular cast of Sion's shield. Her mana costs are insane (literally the most mana dependant champion in the game). Her W is unreliable at best.

And she's a very weak laner for an AP Carry and way too item dependent to be a support.

She's fun as hell to play and may take bad players by surprise but she isn't good by any means.


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Melvear

Senior Member

09-22-2011

W's normal value should be that of the mantra'd version, and the mantra should do something else than just increase the slow/haste. It should also damage the anchor, it just doesn't make sense that it doesn't.

Other than that, she seems fine to me.


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BloodsHaven

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Member

09-22-2011

well ill be around til everyone has fought a "good karma" an when people rally behind a nerf banner u cant say i didn't tel u so.

1. any melee will instantly loose to karma hands down they cant farm due to the barriers OP range.

2 any melee paired with karma for example jax will rofl stomp the double burst an free harassment (because the barrier gives free hp as they move back to a safer position)

3 she has the potential to carry


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