Things LVL 30s should know: long post

First Riot Post
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Xeroxhands

Senior Member

06-02-2010

People have already said this, but I feel it's so important that it needs to be reiterated:

Wards. Buy Them.

If a ward lets your team get just one kill- That ward has proven profitable. If that ward stops an enemy from ganking a lane- that ward has proven profitable. If that ward lets you stop a dragon/baron attempt etc etc etc.

Even when I play in premades with my friends, I find that I'm often the only person buying wards throughout the game, despite letting them know that I'm getting tired of it, it never changes.


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TeaMon

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06-02-2010

This is an awesome guide. Thank you for taking your time to write this out.


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Myridus

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidwin View Post
Thanks a lot for this guide, very helpful.
It seems I’ll need more practice games for the last hit stuff. Only level 15 so still plenty of time.
I’ve a couple of questions although and may be someone could help me out.
I “try” to main Morgana as I love this champion and her support aspect but I am wondering if I am doing the right stuff during the lane phase.
I try to last hit but not always easy as my opponents and my companion are often more interested in first blood. Anyway,
I drop Tormented Soil on/just behind the ranged creeps versus ranged champions or on the melee creeps versus mdps champions once my creeps are nearly dead. This to avoid the enemy champions to last hit my dying creeps. Should I stop doing this or is this ok?
Lane with our tank at the beginning. (level 1-6)
I try to get the creep wave close to our turet so our tank can stay close to it. I then focus on the enemy champions, to distract them, so my tank can hit or last hit the creeps. Sometimes dropping Tormented soil to make the enemy creeps die faster, black shield my tank to help him a bit, and so on. Is this ok too or is their something better to do?
Also a problem I sometimes have is, even if I tell our tank not to worry and focus on the creeps, he/her feels the need to position him/herself in front of me and target the enemy champions. I understand the protective nature of the tank, especially with his support, but when this happens nothing I say or do will change his/her mind. Is this because of my playing style and I need to change it or a normal behavior and I’ll have to accept it?
Not sure I should ask these questions here, but thanks again for the guide.
Nid
You're in luck, because Morgana is my 3rd highest played character. Like mentioned in the last hitting section, it is more difficult to last hit with Mages. A lot of the time you will think you have that minion, only to have it live with 5 hp.

For Morgona specifically, you should level up your Tormented Soil (TS) to level 3 as soon as possible. I usually go Q-W-W-E-W-R. This should allow you to hit the ranged minions once to kill them. Level 4 TS will kill them out right. I start with Meki Pendant+2 health pots though, so if you have some AP it will be different. I also have 10 Magic Pen with runes.

An interesting note that you may not have noticed, is that when the creep waves collide with each other, you can actually place your TS perfectly in the middle of their ranged/melee minions and get them all. It is very easy to miss though so it might take some practice.

My main goal is to farm those minions, nothing else. If enemy champs come around I simply auto attack them. Q is only for escapes/chases. Don't try to harass with it as you will run out of mana quick. Any good player will dodge it. So I wouldn't use my TS for denying them. Try just auto-attacking them. Most people will go back. If not, they will take lots of damage.

This will push them back quickly though. This is a case where you can't avoid pushing them back, so you might as well harass their tower.

Don't drop TS on those melee minions to "help" kill them faster. You're only making it harder for the Tank to time those last hits. Only do this if you're tower is about to be pushed, and it's usually a better idea to hit the ranged ones anyway.

Sometimes you get an aggressive player who won't listen to reason. In this case just do what you can to help him. Don't leave him in the dust just for spite or be stupid and get yourself killed. There is a balance between helping a self-destructive player out, and letting him meet his own demise because of his stupidity. This is a judgement call.


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Gardenia

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06-02-2010

+1 if Just for Godzilla Visual Aides


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Kultra

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Great post, very informative, always wondered why I farmed less than the rest of my team.


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Morinav

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Fantastic advice that is largely ignored/not known by most of the community. It's all pretty elementary stuff, and while I consider myself a "good" player, I'll be honest and say that I learned some stuff by reading this.


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Rodan

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Best thread ever... Not we need to stick this thread and make people read it every **** time they play


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Myridus

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Will update with Wards, Elixers, Pushing later


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Larias

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06-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myridus View Post
Simple Things People SHOULD Know by Level 30

Disclaimer: Very Long Thread. If you want to just see my points, they are in Bold.

Everyone starts off as a newb. It takes time to get the hang of the game. I understand this, but people should get better over time. This doesn’t seem to be the case with some people. There are sometimes I see level 30s that make such basic mistakes that it makes me want to cry.

I’ve decided to make a few guidelines that I believe should be followed in MOST situations. As always, you can never quite predict how a lane will go because of character match ups, but there are some things that remain true at all times.

If you disagree with anything that I say here please state why and not just “you’re wrong”. I’m open to criticism as I know I’m not perfect.



Last Hitting

Learn it. This wins games.

Last Hitting is pretty simple. All it means is that you DO NOT attack the enemy minions constantly. You should wait until the enemy minion is at low health, low enough that one hit will kill them. This is the only time you should attack a minion.

Last hitting minions is better for many reasons:
1. Since you’re minions will die faster, you will be pushed slightly back every time, giving you the safety of your tower
2. Since you’re not auto-attacking you can have complete control over your attacks. With auto-attacking there’s always the chance that you needed that auto-attack half a second before or after to get the killing blow on a minion or champion.
3. It gets you more gold. Auto attacking will get you 1-2 minions a wave out of sure luck. Ranged DPS can get more, only because of a higher base damage. If you watch what you’re attacking every minion every wave should be accounted for by either you or your lane partner.

“But good sir, my tower eats all the minions when I get pushed back!”
“Oh little Timmy, it only takes some patience and a right click.”

Tower Last Hitting

Here’s how to get last hits on minions if you’re pushed back to your tower.
It takes 3 hits to kill a melee minion. It takes 2 hits to kill a ranged minion. Knowing this will allow you to time your attacks to get those last hits.

For melee minions:
Let the tower shoot them twice. This puts them as a sliver of health. Most DPS champs and Tanks can finish them off with one hit. I’ve have noticed however that some can’t do it until about level 3-4, Gangplank for example. Once you have one damage item though, it will never be an issue.
Mages have a harder time doing it because of a lower base attack. You may need to hit them once after the first tower shot, then finish them off after the second shot. After level 6-7, you should be able to get the last hit just fine.

For ranged minions:
These can be tricky sometimes at the tower. Usually a DPS can let them take one tower shot, then hit them once to kill them. At lower levels you might have to hit them once before the tower hits them, then finish them off (Ashe is like this). Mages have the same problem. Sometimes if they’ve taken a little bit of damage, you’ll have to let the tower shoot them, then finish them off.

These procedures do not take into account your minions hitting them or your stupid lane partner screwing it up though. You’ll have to improvise sometimes.


The Laning Phase

If you are in a normal laning situation, 2v2, there are some things to remember.

Use the bush.

Melee heroes need this especially. It’s the only way a melee can stay in the lane with 2 enemy ranged heroes that can harass them. Pot out, get your last hit on that minion, go back in.

DO NOT ATTACK FROM THE BUSH. I see too many people do this. If you are in the bush, and attack, it reveals you, unless a skill-shot. Now you have minions and probably the enemy champion attacking you. Pot out and attack, then go back in.

Just going in the bush will often make your opponents back up. This denies them their minions and possibly XP.

If it looks like you will not be able to kill them (low DPS on your side, crazy healing on theirs) but you are in danger of dieing, it may be better to let them push you back every wave for the safety of your tower. If you do this however, you should make sure they’re not getting hits on your tower when their wave gets to you.

DO NOT check a bush if they’ve been MIA for 5 seconds. Chances are, they are waiting right there for their free food. Keep a safe distance or hit it with a skill shot if you have one.

In a 2v1 situation:

Contrary to popular belief, pushing the minions back into your opponent’s tower and making him tower hug is not too effective.

Any decent player will simply last hit everything. Any ranged DPS/Mage can safely do this. For a melee, it can be more difficult if you have good harassing ability. They are also still getting the XP and will out level you.

What you should do is let the waves hit each other. At this point the lane will look like this.

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...now/Normal.jpg

Harass until they back up. Remember to use the grass to lose the minion agro. Once you push them back enough, stay on your opponent’s side of the minions, utilizing the grass properly. You should be positioned like this:

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...20know/2v1.jpg


Once you get them to back up to their tower you repeat the process during the entire laning phase.

DO NOT sit at their tower and take out their minions as they come in. Let their minions push to the mid, staying in the brush. Once the minion waves have clashed, come out to deny your opponent again. It should look like this:

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...Domination.jpg

Get those last hits. Do not auto attack or it will allow more of your minions to reach their tower, where your opponent can get XP off of them. Don’t let the enemy get close either.

One thing that should be mentioned though is that this does not allow for kills very easily. Since they will be backed up to their tower, they probably won’t take much damage and will not be in danger of dieing. Since you are not killing their minions quickly, if you attack them, you’ll have a lot of minions focusing you.

Since this occurs when a champion is jungling most of the time, you should be wary of them. This tactic keeps you mid lane most of the time so you should be able to get out. Expect a gank at around 5-6 minute mark if they are running smite or ralley. If not, they may still come, but won’t have the Lizard buff most likely.

It should be noted that this is very easy to do in a 2v1 situation. This same thing can occur in a 2v2. The principles are the same though, deny them XP and gold.


In a 1v2 situation:

This should not happen to any melee hero. If your team decides to put you by yourself as a melee against two champions, it could end badly. It’s hard enough to lane as a Range against two intelligent players. Melee makes this even worse. The reasons are explained above.

There are some exceptions. Mord and Jax can hold their own in some situations by sheer durability and damage output. Nasus can sit back and farm with his AoE. I don’t believe any tank should be solo though (I consider Mord a tough melee DPS, in case you’re wondering).

If you are stuck in this predicament, you need to either keep one low enough that they won’t be aggressive, or tower hug a bit to keep you safe.

Since you can out-level them, once you are 5 and they are probably just getting to 3, you could possibly kill one of them if they are low. Be careful though. You have to remember that they still have the damage of two people, and probably a lot of minions.

If you kill one and die, or worse, fail in your attempt and die, it’s really, really bad. You’ve left your tower unguarded and will probably fall if you were laning against a DPS. You’ve just given their team about 650 gold (I believe) and you no longer have a safe place to level up and farm. To top it off, the two champions you were fighting probably leveled up, so that gap you might have created between your level and theirs is smaller.



Let your lane partner do their job, within reason.

Support champions:
Support champions DO NOT make you invincible.

I play Janna, Soraka, and Morgana pretty often. There is nothing more aggravating than watch your lane partner go for a kill when the opponent is at 80% health, then die. Soon after their death, they blame you. Their logic usually goes something like: “I don’t get how that guy survived. You should have supported me more. It’s your fault for sucking. I hate youfalsflasidjfklasmdf….”

If you are laning with a support champion, you need to realize a few things. They are baby sitters. They will do as much as they possibly can to keep you alive and going. They ARE NOT DPS. That means that they will not put out the damage you are used to seeing from a DPS/Mage partner. If that enemy is at 80%, he’s not gonna die from you and a support’s auto attack and low damage spells unless they are squishy as hell.

Let them help your lane dominance, but don’t expect miracles from them.

Tanks:
Let them tank. That’s what they’re there for. Tanks should be paired up with a ranged dps or mage so your lane doesn’t get dominated.

He needs to get last hits too, so don’t be a ***** and take every one you see him go for. It’s arguable that DPSers and Mages need gold more. IMO, if a Tank doesn’t have the items to actually tank, then he’s useless and is going to die every fight. Then you’re gonna be all mad that he’s feeding the enemy and nobody’s happy.

If he has no mana, don’t expect them to do much. Last time I checked you could pretty much ignore a tank when all it can do is auto-attack. So don’t get all pissy when you go for a kill that you probably won’t get and die because your tank could only auto-attack.

DPS/Mage:
Set them up. Feed them. Protect them. They make the core of your team. Hope and pray that your carry is good. If you have to choose between saving them and dieing, or leaving them in dust while you get away, you shouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice yourself for them. The ONLY exception I will say that could come up is if you have lots of stacks on a snowball item (Meji, SotO, Levi).

I know that sometimes you come across someone who’s simply terrible. It happens. You might have to get more damage items to bring the pain if you’re not also a DPS/Mage. You should still try to protect them as much as you can, although it could be more beneficial to save yourself instead of them if the situation arises.

If you have a Yi, or Ashe, by all that’s holy in League of Legends, keep them going. Because of their “auto-attack, you die” nature, it doesn’t take anyone good to carry with those two if the game reaches the 45 minute mark. Fed or not, some carries just destroy that long into the game.



Team Fights

1. Focus the carry
2. Do your job.
3. Ignore the tank.

That pretty much sums up team fights. It amazes me that people have not learnt this by now.

If you’re a Tank, tank stuff. Go in first, targeting their carry. Your team will follow if you are doing your job. Basically what makes a good tank is that they can't be ignored entirely. You should be able to take hits and do reasonable damage. Most also have CC (stuns/slows) to "force" a fight to happen. This way their carry that you targetted has to turn and fight you since he can't get away.

If you are Support, protect your carry and screw over theirs. Stay in the back since you are most likely made of paper.

If you’re a DPS, target their DPS, not their tank. If you are a squishy DPS, which most are, DO NOT go in first. Follow the tank in.

I’d like to address one thing I’ve seen happen a lot, and I’m at fault for this too a lot. The enemy tank will initiate and everyone blows all their spells on the guy that’s in the middle of all of you. This is instinct and people will always do it. When this happens, there are two outcomes:

1. Their tank hasn’t been doing well or your DPS is fed some. Their tank dies instantly to the 5 champion focus fire. That’s fine. If that happens, you should all RUN. Everyone on your team has all their spells on cool down and the enemy team is coming to avenge their fallen brother. You’ve gotten a free kill, so no reason to chance anything. Back out and wait about 10 sec before going back in.

This will allow any healers you have to regen any damage you’ve taken and all your spells will be back up. People really need to consider a Mage’s cool downs. Anivia for example has a 12 second cool down on her main initiation spell. I know others are similar. If you go in right after you kill their tank, your Mages will most likely be useless and you’re fighting 4 enemy champions with half of your champions restricted to auto-attacks for several seconds. Chances are their initial burst will kill one of your carries. Now they are down a tank, and you are down a carry. Their tank has done their job, and one of your carries can’t do theirs because they are dead. This won’t end well.

2. You blow all your spells on their tank and he DOESN’T die. Well this is just unfortunate. Either someone on your team isn’t doing their job or their tank is fed a bit. Now the enemy team is going to kill you. Have fun with that. You should probably fall back to let all your cool downs reset so you can actually fight back.

If their carry gets too aggressive though you can always take the fight to them. Just hope your tank sees this and goes after him. This is a scary situation because it could go either way. Have fun.


Roaming

1. If the entire enemy team is MIA (missing in action) don’t go off alone, or even in pairs. As soon as you find them, you’ll die.
2. If you see one enemy champion run into a bush away from you, this is called “bait”. If you take it, you die. Chances are that the other 4 champions are waiting in the bush to kill you. Don’t fall for this.



That’s it for my guide for now. If you would like to add something please feel free. All I ask is that you explain your reasoning. I hope this helps someone.

TL;DR : Last Hit Minions, Deny EXP, Focus Carry, Ignore Tank, Don't Roam by Yourself, Don't Fall for Bait
If you haven't yet, re-post this on the New Player Forums, please.


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Miles Long

Senior Member

06-02-2010

So basically...

Lane like a passive ******bag and be sure to selfishly steal every creep kill for yourself with no regard to your partner. I love how the stupid denier strategy still found its way into LoL despite there being no denying.

Abuse the broken brush mechanic in lieu of having any true laning and/or ganking skill.

Don't push lanes in a game where the primary objective is to destroy the opposing team's base.

Boy you know, your post neatly summed up how painfully one dimensional LoL is with its complete disregard to laning and overemphasis on ganking. Basically, almost every way I don't play this game and never plan to is on your so-called brilliant list of "Do this and always win."

More than anything, your post has reminded me how much I hate how shallow this game is at heart. Every game devolves into the same stupid **** and in the end, the only thing that matters is which team blindly counter-picks better. And which team can hump the brush more effectively too, of course.

Your post should have ended at "you can never quite predict how a lane will go because of character match ups" because in light of that, anything you say thereafter is simply supposition, despite trying to hypocritically state "but there are some things that remain true at all times."

There are too many variables in play to realistically assume that anything could possibly be absolute. I'm afraid that makes your post nothing more than subjective drivel that should not be taken as fact.

Thank you for reminding me why I hate LoL, although I'm sure my next game will do that job just as well.