{Guide} Ezreal: Monster Damage With Great Support

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Deadly Paradox

Senior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
Its a HYBRID build, as you stated... Trinity works well for the AD side of your build...
How much AP and AD do you have at end game, as all those items increase both (Gunblade, Guinsoos, and Trinity would increase your AD and AP, meaning you may hit harder with your Q ability, and still have a large bonus to healing/support.)

I'm not trying to shut down your build, I was just pointed out that Trinity increases damage by 130%, not by 30%...
Trinity Force increases your BASE damage. Lich Bane would help out Mystic Shot more than Trinity Force in this case.


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Craixis

Senior Member

06-01-2010

It would still proc and go off with Trinity Force, (as it deals 100% of his damage), so doubling his base damage would double the bonus going to Mystic Shot, just like Lich Bane would increase the damage... at least in theory (As both items work the same way), so you'd deal, say, 100 base damage, + 130 damage, + 140 damage (at level 5 mystic shot)
So about 370 damage... (but odds are, you'll have more then 100 base damage, I was just using 100 because I don't want to get to deep into this)

If you have 130 AP, it adds 130 damage to your base attack, which Mystic shot is using... so it'd also deal 370 damage... right?

... k, this Ezreal Mystic Shot **** is getting confusing, just gonna quote the bloody thing here...
"Ezreal fires a bolt of energy dealing 40/65/90/115/140 plus 100% of his attack damage as physical damage"
Not his base damage, his total attack damage, so my theory should work -.-'... although its probably more cost effective to use Lich Bane (as you'll still have a large amount of AP).

Although this does give me a good idea for an AD Ezreal... hmm, theory crafting here I come! (Wow, this whole Trinity Vs Lichbane started on me trying to point out that he said it was only increasing damage by a tiny amount, when it is, infact, a very large amount)


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Fingertips

Junior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly Paradox View Post
Assuming it uses the base damage at level 18, and not the base damage at level 1, this is how it works:

Trinity Force

103 * 1.3 + 103 = 236.9

Lich Bane (without any other AP items)
80 + 103 = 183

In order to do more damage, you need 53 (54 if Trinity Force is rounded up) more AP.

(Trinity Force ADDS the damage to your next attack, so it's your base attack * 1.3 ADDED to your base attack. Lich Bane does the same thing, but uses your AP instead (no multiplication.)
My end builds gives 191 Atk damage and 228 ability power. This is with Lichbane, boots, Hextech Gunblade, and Guinsoo's. With Trinity Force instead of lichbane, the build would have 211 Atk damage and 178 ability power.

A lichbane proc would give 191 + 228 = 419. With Trinity Force using base damage (not counting items) it would be 211 + 103*1.3 = 334 damage. If trinity uses damage from items as well it would be 211 + 211*1.3 = 485 damage. I believe trinity works out to give 334 damage not 485, correct me if I am wrong here. Therefore, if my math is correct, lichbane is clearly the better choice.

Also trinity force gives attack speed and crit, which neither are good on Ezreal.


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Fingertips

Junior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
It would still proc and go off with Trinity Force, (as it deals 100% of his damage), so doubling his base damage would double the bonus going to Mystic Shot, just like Lich Bane would increase the damage... at least in theory (As both items work the same way), so you'd deal, say, 100 base damage, + 130 damage, + 140 damage (at level 5 mystic shot)
So about 370 damage... (but odds are, you'll have more then 100 base damage, I was just using 100 because I don't want to get to deep into this)

If you have 130 AP, it adds 130 damage to your base attack, which Mystic shot is using... so it'd also deal 370 damage... right?

... k, this Ezreal Mystic Shot **** is getting confusing, just gonna quote the bloody thing here...
"Ezreal fires a bolt of energy dealing 40/65/90/115/140 plus 100% of his attack damage as physical damage"
Not his base damage, his total attack damage, so my theory should work -.-'... although its probably more cost effective to use Lich Bane (as you'll still have a large amount of AP).

Although this does give me a good idea for an AD Ezreal... hmm, theory crafting here I come! (Wow, this whole Trinity Vs Lichbane started on me trying to point out that he said it was only increasing damage by a tiny amount, when it is, infact, a very large amount)
My original post was incorrect about trinity force, but I believe you are not viewing base damage correctly. At level 18, ezreal's base damage is 103; therefore, you use this damage as the component for trinity force. So what ever your damage is, say 200, it still uses 103 for the proc. So your trinity force damage does 200 + 1.3*103 = 333.9 dmg. With a mystic shot the damage would become 140 + 200+ 1.3*103 = 473.9. These numbers agree with what I see in game. With Lichbane instead, having 200 AD and 200 AP, the auto attack proc would deal 200 from AD and 200 from AP, giving you 400 dmg. With a mystic shot that would be 540 dmg, which is much higher than 473.9 dmg. Clearly, Lichbane is superior.


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Craixis

Senior Member

06-01-2010

Base damage refers to your damage with all your items (oh and bloodthirster adds to your base AD... don't belive me? Next time you're in a game, hit C, and look at "Base Damage" as I stated, that's what Trinity goes off of.)
Meaning... your base damage is 211... with all damage calculated... you deal 625 damage with Trinity Force... (211 for base damage, 274 damage for Trinity, and 140 for Mystic shot... your Lich Bane would deal 191+228+140= 559 damage... but its much cheaper...)
So yes, Trinity is a stronger item, but you have to include cost here... as Trinity is bloody expensive...

This is why Trinity is such a good item, because it cost 1260 for the Sheen (which both use) 1315 for the Phage, and 1195 for the Zeal... oh and 300 for Trinity on top of that...
So, its 1260+1315+1195+300= 4070$... for Trinity...
Lich Bane uses Sheen (1280), A Blasting Wand for 860, a Null Magic Mantal, for 400, and 950 for Lich Bane itself...

So, its 1260+950+860+400= 3470$... only 600 cheaper?
Holy **** what in the bloody hell am I saying, Trinity would be a much better choice for Mystic this way (600 G is one champ kill, or a couple waves farming), plus you have a chance to slow on hit, so you don't need that Frozen Mallet... (As you also have that slow on hit while your building the item)


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Fingertips

Junior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
Base damage refers to your damage with all your items (oh and bloodthirster adds to your base AD... don't belive me? Next time you're in a game, hit C, and look at "Base Damage" as I stated, that's what Trinity goes off of.)
Meaning... your base damage is 211... with all damage calculated... you deal 625 damage with Trinity Force... (211 for base damage, 274 damage for Trinity, and 140 for Mystic shot... your Lich Bane would deal 191+228+140= 559 damage... but its much cheaper...)
So yes, Trinity is a stronger item, but you have to include cost here... as Trinity is bloody expensive...

This is why Trinity is such a good item, because it cost 1260 for the Sheen (which both use) 1315 for the Phage, and 1195 for the Zeal... oh and 300 for Trinity on top of that...
So, its 1260+1315+1195+300= 4070$... for Trinity...
Lich Bane uses Sheen (1280), A Blasting Wand for 860, a Null Magic Mantal, for 400, and 950 for Lich Bane itself...

So, its 1260+950+860+400= 3470$... only 600 cheaper?
Holy **** what in the bloody hell am I saying, Trinity would be a much better choice for Mystic this way (600 G is one champ kill, or a couple waves farming), plus you have a chance to slow on hit, so you don't need that Frozen Mallet... (As you also have that slow on hit while your building the item)
Where do you get your information from? Think about it, Ezreal's Q says it deals 100% of his ATTACK DAMAGE. Trinity force says BASE ATTACK DAMAGE; this does not include damage from items. The base damage of a character is different for every character, but having it increase with attack damage would just be ridiculous. Think about it; a shaco having 300 AD would then hit for 300 + 300*1.3 = 690 damage with just a TF. No. That's overpowered and not how it works. My math is correct and yours is not.


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Karma Police

Senior Member

06-01-2010

Base Damage is damage before items. It's the blue number if you hover over the damage of your character. Trinity Force / Sheen increases the base damage of your next attack by 120/80% respectively. Say a character has 100 base damage at level 18, their Trinity Force / Sheen hits would be 220 / 180 respectively. This is because 100 + (100*1.2) = 220 / 100 + (100*.8) = 180.

I hope that clears things up.


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Craixis

Senior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ionized Particle View Post
Where do you get your information from? Think about it, Ezreal's Q says it deals 100% of his ATTACK DAMAGE. Trinity force says BASE ATTACK DAMAGE; this does not include damage from items. The base damage of a character is different for every character, but having it increase with attack damage would just be ridiculous. Think about it; a shaco having 300 AD would then hit for 300 + 300*1.3 = 690 damage with just a TF. No. That's overpowered and not how it works. My math is correct and yours is not.
It does include base damage, listen to me, start up a game, grab a longsword, and hit C, and look at "Base" damage... its your Auto attack damage, what you do on every attack (hense, its your BASE, items like Bloodthirster increases your BASE Damage by 40 after 40 kills, but it is lost on death)
Base damage is not the characters beginning damage, its their standard auto attack damage... My math is correct (Because I've also tested), and I've taken in all accountable variables...

Here, let me get a screeny for you, this is what I'm going off of... (see attachment)
See the base damage stat, it matches the total attack down at the bottom left... Thus, base attack includes items... (I have also tested this with Bloodthirster, it adds to base damage)
Thus, Trinity is a much better buy then Lichbane. (Don't just assume my math is wrong, next time you're in a game, buy a longsword and hit C, it brings up character stats, which is what I go off of when I'm telling you my side of the arguement, if you want to keep proving who pees furthest, we can keep going, but this is all this is, a pissing contest, my math is fine... I can count in Binary for C*** sake I should be able to do some simple logic solving.)

My Knight takes your Queen, the cake is a lie, my facts are VALID... though I can see the logic you're coming from, it is missing crucial facts which I have... My base damage is not 56, it is 68, point proven. Sorry if I'm coming off as an arse here, but I have stated this many times, and you continue to insult my logic, which I know is solid.


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Be Calm Carry On

Senior Member

06-01-2010

This thread should not have gone on this long without a clear answer about sheen triforce and lichbane. Sheen and triforce add a modified value of your base damage (despite what it says on the character screen, this is no more than starting damage plus damage gained per level), and this bonus damage is pretty much static by level. Lichbane has the potential to greatly exceed the amount of damage done by sheen/triforce because it scales off of a stat you can build. .


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Fingertips

Junior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indophal View Post
This thread should not have gone on this long without a clear answer about sheen triforce and lichbane. Sheen and triforce add a modified value of your base damage (despite what it says on the character screen, this is no more than starting damage plus damage gained per level), and this bonus damage is pretty much static by level. Lichbane has the potential to greatly exceed the amount of damage done by sheen/triforce because it scales off of a stat you can build. .
THIS

Like I said, Trinity force always adds 103*1.3 to your next attack at level 18, regardless of how many damage items you have. Please dont quote your screen shot either. Your base damage is the blue number. Notice how it says 58 + 10 attack damage. The 58 is the base atk damage at level 1. If you want to test it, afk in a bot game at level 1 until you can buy a long sword and sheen and the damage should be 68 + 58*1.3 = 143 approximately.


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