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Why Lee Sin is NOT overpowered

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AndMann

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
ReLaTiviT:

Main Point 3:
Lee Sin must use his ult strategically, as it is useful for a wide variety of situations.

Dragon's Rage can be used to:
Execute low-HP enemies
Push back dangerous enemies
Save Allies
Push a important target toward your team


"Lee's ult is incredibly versatile, so it's not OP"

So to balance Orianna, Riot should have made it so her ult can heal teammates too. That way, it would be a lot more versatile, so she would be balanced.


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BestSansaChan NW

Senior Member

09-20-2011

He's overpowered. And yes, I play him. Just my two cents.


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0Splicer0

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Sorry wth did I just read?

Completely childish and desperate from the OP.

Lee's Q is a skill shot, and not only that, his skill shot is a double hit close gap, comparing it to any other skill shot other is like saying Ezreal's ult and Ashe's ult are the same, and ANY skill shot is vital to success, it's not like Lux or Morganna can kill everyone just because they missed their bind.

Point 2 is just ridiculous and pathetic, it's only there to fill the space right?

Point 3 is just another ridiculously obvious thing, only stupid noobs will ult someone at first hit with Lee sin. It's like using Vayne's condemn without being close to a wall.

You want decisions? Go play 2x1 LeBlanc or any other that isn't hit Q, "The enemy has been slain."


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Kaeoz

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Bland:
Your explanation is excellent, but also provides arguments for not calling Lee Sin OP, but actually other champions UP...

Let's use your scenario:
If you now reduce Champion B to have same potential power as Champion A, it will break the lower Elos, since he'll obviously be extremely less powerful than Champion A. Thus you would have to make him easier, capping him at a skill of 5 as well.

End-Result: you have 2 Champions at a potential power level of 20 at a skill of 5...
And a ton of higher Elo players who have a skill of 9+ and aren't playing either of the champions (only talking about the champion handling here, not other skills you need in higher Elo) a single bit different from how lower Elos use them. Even worse, someone who has the same tactical properties and reflexes as a high Elo player, but is really bad at champion handling, could even beat someone in high Elo, because there's simply no champion that allows the high Elo player to show what he can do.

I'd much rather have more champions with a high skill-cap instead of nerfing those who have one.


No you see Riot does this thing where they have "baseline champions" that is champions who they believe are the pinnacle of balance.

As far as I know they used to be:

Annie - Mage (Before the rework)
Rammus - Tank (Around Sept 2010)
Ashe - AD Carry
Janna - Support


So essentially what I'm saying is that Champion B represent these "Baseline" champions... problem with lee sin is that he far exceeds every other jungler in almost EVERY SINGLE FACET. In almost 90% of situations, picking a leesin would be better than picking any other jungler because he is JUST that powerful compared to other champions/junglers at his max potential... He can give your AP carry blue buff at ANY TIME..., ridiculous gank at level 2. crazy fast jungle clear, really strong burst (good jungle control) and really good sustain (W), and crazy mobility.


Being able to play a champion is a very very very small part of what a high elo player can do... most people are high elo because they know WHAT to do and WHEN to do it. If you have the tactical prowess of a high elo player... you're practically 90% there and just have to play support 100% of the time while leading your team.

Also, riot has said that they don't mind any champion being UNDERPOWERED at certain elos (Xin Zhao in high elo, Eve/Shaco/Twitch in mid/high elos, orianna in low elo). Its not DESIREABLE, but its lesser of two evils rather than having a champion be OP in a certain elo range.


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BrendanEarth

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Arguments on why he is not OP:
He has a high skill cap
He uses skill shots

Arguments on why he is OP
He is versatile
He can do a decent amount of burst damage
He has strong ganks

1. His burst isn't near as good as a caster and requires much more skill to do said burst then say Annie
2. But he has much better mobility, utility and tankiness

Conclusion: He is strong. I wouldn't call him op. Learn to dodge skillshots. If he is harder to use, and doesn't give any benefit,, then why the **** would I use him when I could use an ezmode champ that does the same thing.


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Iced Nova

Recruiter

09-20-2011

Quote:
AndMann:
"Lee's ult is incredibly versatile, so it's not OP"

So to balance Orianna, Riot should have made it so her ult can heal teammates too. That way, it would be a lot more versatile, so she would be balanced.


Lee's ult is incredibly versatile, and requires thought and timing to use, and cant be used at a 900 range.

i hate people like you that only read what you want to read and then have a fantasy that someone said something they didn't and then try to shove it in their face.


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Lucky Pierre

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Lee Sin has an ult that is an AOE 600 damage BASE nuke that scales 2:1 on additional attack damage. Not many champs have a skill with a Base that huge. He is also one of the most mobile champs in the game seeing as he has both an offensive and a defensive dash on sub 6 second CDs. His Q scales 1:1 on additional AD on BOTH hits while still having a large base (The second hit also hits for 10% of lost health increasing base damage even more). Oh he also has a team wide cripple.

There is no reason for Lee to have abilities with base damage amounts as high as they are. The issue is magnified when the person playing the champ is any good.


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SoEasyDude

Senior Member

09-20-2011

ya hes op


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Kenage

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
1.Only one Dash can be used to reliably get the to target, even then you have to dash to your own creeps, giving them ample time to move away when they see you.
2.The other dash requires you to actually aim and land it, making sure you get to the target.
3.If Tempest is maxed first, Then he doesn't have the tankyness from Safeguard / Iron Will
4. His Hard CC is a short Knock-back and if perfectly aimed, can knock-up multiple enemies (so can Janna)

Also, "1,140 flat damage plus 4.0 Bonus attack damage" is not a way to tell how much damage he actually does.

How often is he actually landing his Q, E, and R?

Karthus with his whole kit does 880 Damage and a 1.05 bonus AP. Less than Lee right?

Wrong, It comes down to Cooldowns and the fact that a Pure damage Lee dies instantly in a team fight, and a Tanky Lee won't be anywhere close to having Carry-Esque Damage.

His strength is Early and Mid, Late game he Tapers off more then any Bruiser in the game. He's more of an AD caster that becomes Tanky and Supporty(safeguard, Defensive kicks) late game if you ask me.
I think you missed the point regarding this kit, I never said anything about ganking I was talking about escaping a gank, I'm still waiting for another character that can use his whole kit to get out of one.

The total combined damage of this abilities is a good measure of how much damage we can do in a burst, besides it only requires you to land Q then Q again E and R and presto! you got 1,140 damage plus 4 times you attack bonus, and then you get out of there right away with W.

High burst, high mobility and high survivability. A champ should not be able to do all three, just look at his synergy with the METAGOLEM build, he is a Tanky DPS we all get that, but again just look at the rest of the champions, he is definitely the Tanky DPS with the highest mobility, is that OK?, specially since he still have a very respectable damage end game.


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0Splicer0

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
BrendanUHS:

Conclusion: He is strong. I wouldn't call him op. Learn to dodge skillshots. If he is harder to use, and doesn't give any benefit,, then why the **** would I use him when I could use an ezmode champ that does the same thing.


That is the reason why people create the "don't nerf X" threads. And why noobs love playing an op champion over a fun one.