So Orianna is harder to play than other AP carries but only about as good as them now

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Blugyblug

Senior Member

09-20-2011

All champs are very easy once you get used to them.

I find Ryze harder to play than Anivia because I have high ping (aus), and I use smartcasting. So half the overloads I cast dont actually work. And it's a bit strange getting used to pressing 6 buttons in less that a second. But I have 270 games as Anivia. So Anivia is easier to play for me than Ryze.

So all champs are easy once you can get used to them. Most champions will be hard at first, but when you get a feel for them they are easy.

But champs like Karthus/Shaco/Cass require constant concentration.

Contrary to popular belief, Karthus is not a walking ultimate. His Q is his auto-attack and he is really reliant on it. Complete reliance on a skillshot=harder to play. Same with Cass.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureClockwork View Post
i never said she fell behind other casters, she just needs more skill
though, i always thought her mana costs were counted as high except for her Q

also, in actuallity, the 3 solo mids, brand, annie, cass, and orianna
brand has 2 900 range spells
cass has 3 850 range spells
annie is the only one with short range

also, out of those 3, brand has a non-ult stun
annie has a stun every 5 skills.
cassiopiea gets a ms boost for 3 seconds and a good slow
all 3 have pretty good escapes, its just they normally use it for offensives, which lead them to not being able to use it to escape

also, her passive i think gives her only 10 more damage than brand at level 10 with no AP. Most oriannas i see don't get decent enough AP during the laning phase, due to need of mana. also range is now a problem, as she has the lowest range now

on the term of mana costs, i believe brand has roughly same mana costs, but with higher mp/5
annie has more costs, but a stronger burst
and Cassiopeia has high costs, but a passive that reduces it.
orianna also has a very low mp/5

to me, (ive done brand and annie before) orianna's extra difficulty is mastery of using the ball and not being able to change targets. i dont think i have stated she fell behind because of difficulty, i was using those points to refute someone's argument that orianna is super easy comparatively to other AP mids.
to me she requires a decent ammount of skill more, but i also take into account that she has a higher skillcap.
to me, skillcap means you can apply more skill to master her, but she is harder to master. its on both. higher skillcap means more potential, but also a far harder mastery
Q and E are low, while Dissonance is ok (while most AOEs are around that high or a little higher). Her ult is cheap again.

For range:
Orianna has delay on her ball. using W doesn't have any. The ball can be used like wall against an enemy.
Her range is 800+ for Q, W, E and R. And her ball can still stay were it is for over 1k range. It needs more skill and timing but also gives a better range.
Look at Anivias E or Malzahars E. Single spells may have a good range, but they have always 1-2 spells with a lower range, what prevents them from using their full combo over that range.
Your actual range for a kill is only as high as your lowest range as a caster. Only in 2v1 situations or low HP kills you can use less spells over higher range.
The range of a single spell is important in the laning phase or when it is a CC or opener.

Escape != stun. You are often ganked by a jungler and mid laner, so you need to get away from 2.
Cass MS is a way, but she needs to hit an enemy champ.
Orianna can slow or speed herself up (no risk) and she can boost her defensive stats like a boss and give herself a shield (30 Armor and MR late game are around 17% additional dmg reduction compared to normal Armor and MR).

To the passive: It's a sure last hit mechanic. Brand has a better range, but his dmg is low with AA. His spells are good to farm later, but the passive doesn't ensure you kills cause it's a low ticking DOT.
Oriannas also stacks up to 30% bonus dmg and scales with AP. I dont say it's OP, but the passive is useful and strong as most passives.

Brand combos costs 10 more mana (without ult that costs extra 0-50 mana).
At lvl 3 (all spells lvl 1) they are the same and Orianna has worse mana reg, but also a little more base mana (Brand has lower mana than most casters). That would be a disadvantage, if her spells wouldn't have a second effect.
Orianna also has the probably highest HP reg of all AP champs. The difference is nearly the same as the mana reg difference (mana reg difference is still a little higher).
=> she gets 2 advantages for losing some mana reg: HP reg and second spell effects (Brand has also around 9-10% less mana than other casters at lvl 10 to 18).


I think Orianna is fine like she is now. I would have nerfed her AA range, too, but her Q range nerf was maybe a little much. I would have chosen a 850 range.

People also often underestimate the skill you need with champs like Anivia (wall needs the most skill), Annie (a good enemy will use the range advantage early game), or Cass (MS counters her so well and she has 0 chance against a morgana). Also Brand is hard to play. Hitting a good enemy with W without any slow can be hard (does he turn around or move on? when the enemy doensn't get boots early, it's his fault). Also Brand needs his full combo to be really good, and 2 spells of that can be avoided and his ult doesn't hit more than once against a good enemy.
Also Orianna has the ability to fail and still be good. Not hitting with Q is not destructive for 6-10 sec for you. It has a low CD and the other 2 AOEs have a higher radius. Fail with annies stun and you have to wait for 4 new spells. Fail with Swains W and you have to wait nearly 20 sec.
And Utility is a lot stronger than most people think. Shields, Armor, MR, MS, Slow or knock ups are often stronger than dmg.

=> She needs more skill than most AP champs, that is a fact, but the difference isn't THAT high (like the gap between Brand and Anivia). And she also gets enough out of it if you have that skill (the same between Brand and Anivia).


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ObscureClockwork

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post

=> She needs more skill than most AP champs, that is a fact, but the difference isn't THAT high (like the gap between Brand and Anivia). And she also gets enough out of it if you have that skill (the same between Brand and Anivia).
we could argue for a long time about difficulty, its just we have different oppinions what makes a champion difficult

the bolded text though,
i have stated i dont refute that, difference in skill is also subjective. i did better with brand than orianna. i also don't state she didn't get enough bang for the buck

though if i had to nerf her, i would not nerf her autoattack range. 50 range is a lot imo


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Xyltin

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureClockwork View Post
we could argue for a long time about difficulty, its just we have different oppinions what makes a champion difficult

the bolded text though,
i have stated i dont refute that, difference in skill is also subjective. i did better with brand than orianna. i also don't state she didn't get enough bang for the buck

though if i had to nerf her, i would not nerf her autoattack range. 50 range is a lot imo
I also do better with brand than with orianna. I also do better with brand than with annie. But i do better with Malz than with any other AP champ. (before i stopped playing lol for 3 months and played WOW again, annie was my most played champ and i was good, but i think she doesn't like me anymore.)

There is a overall difficulty for champs in general, while a single person has different abilities and different ways to play.

I have some friends that fail with brand completely but are so awesome with Orianna.


For her AA range. With the passive already giving her the best last hitting tool right next to annies Q i think the AA range nerf is ok. She deals good dmg with her AA (and every caster uses AA to harass a little more if possible).
There are even casters with a lower AA range, much less dmg and a worse animation. SWAIN (480). Morgana also has only 425 range. TF has 510 and Veigar 525. Vlad with 450 and Karma with 425. Fiddle: 480. LeBLanc:525.
Annie 626, Anivia 600, Malz, 550, ...

There are high differences in casters AA ranges. But most of them have a weak AA, bad animation, low AS or a lot of sustain when they have a high range.
Orianna ha a very good AS (especially AS per lvl) for an AP champ. She may have a low AD value, but her passvie, that gives enough bonus dmg and also profits from MagicPen.

But her Q range is the range of all her spells. It's her scouting ability, too.


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Baculus

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Senior Member

09-20-2011

Orianna (was) mana efficient, had a great autoattack with the range of a carry, could easily zone out anyone, had an amazing shield, and an AOE speed boost/slow along with a hard hitting ult that could totally disrupt an entire enemy team.

She still has everything except the first two, the third is still possible. Orianna is still 100% immune to facechecking/baiting due to her ball. Not really sure what you're complaining about when she was so easy.

(Here's the secret, attach the ball to the tank to save mana, then just mash your keys as usual. GG)

Other secret is Ez was never hard to play, especially when he was at the game breaking point. All of his skillshots were easy to land and he had a built in flash. Morgana/Cass/Ali however actually need some effort.


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cornswaggler

Senior Member

09-20-2011

LOL hardest caster? who said that seriously...anivia, cass are way harder to play, its not even close. maybe if you are severely skill shot challenged, but then again anivia and cass will still be way harder...


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Mo Zedong

Senior Member

09-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burpcycle View Post
So... she's Ezreal?
Ez not even that hard. He is hard for an ad carry though , since most of them hit an ability than auto attack.




And i think its good design btw. Some people like mechanically difficult champions. If you don't , just play an "ez" one......


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iKnowMyADCs

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Senior Member

09-20-2011

Lol why are people with larger ranges but skillshots considered significantly harder? First time Anivia, read a quick guide, carried hard. First time Ori, listened to a
friend, carried hard. These champs arent hard. Try them first.