Recent Kayle Changes

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TwilightsCall

Junior Member

09-17-2009

Quote:
Kayle (Light Remake)
  • Reckoning - Strikes a target dealing damage and slowing its movement speed and attack speed for 4 seconds.
    • The movement speed reduction is now 20-30% down from 20%-40%.
    • Removed the stun and double damage component after an ally dies.
  • Divine Blessing - Blesses a target allied Champion, healing them and increasing their movement speed for 20 seconds.
    • Changed the heal over time into a direct heal.
  • Righteous Fury - Ignites Kayle's sword with a holy flame, granting Kayle a ranged splash attack.
    • Removed the bonus damage, and lowered the duration of the spell.
  • Ultimate: Intervention - Bathes Kayle’s target in a holy light, rendering them immune to all damage for 4 seconds.
    • The cooldown was increased, but it can now be cast upon allies.
  • Passive: Holy Fervor - Kayle and nearby allied champions attack 10% faster. If an allied champion dies while under the effects of Holy Fervor, Kayle's Attack Speed is further increased as she attempts to avenge them.
So these are the changes to kayle today. As someone who plays Kayle as his main, I feel I must take some time to post my thoughts on them (since I need something to distract me while I wait for the servers to come up so I can actually test out the changes).

Obviously, I havn't played with the changes yet, but I think its pretty obvious to see how the changes are going to play out when the servers do come up.

1) Reckoning. I can see why they made the change to its slow effect. Yeah, it was quite irritating to deal with the slow, though I personally don't find its slow effect that important. But hey, if they feel it needed a change, thats fine by me.

HOWEVER. Removing Reckoning's second ability was a terrible idea in my opinion. Changing it might be reasonable, I can see the stun getting out of hand. But removing its increased damage when a nearby ally dies turns reckoning into nothing but a light pressure spell. This was one of Kayle's defining spells, and now its more or less lost all of its flavour and appeal.

SUGGESTION: Change it back! If you want to reduce the stun duration/change it to a super slow instead of a stun, thats reasonable. But atleast leave the bonus damage there.

2) Divine Blessing. Thank you. Changing this to a point heal is a great idea, no complaints at all here.

3) Righteous Fury? Reduced effect and duration...umm...why? Just cause its not in the ultimate slot anymore... If your going to make it less effective, shouldn't the COOL DOWN be reduced instead of the DURATION? This skill used to be excellent against creeps and towers, while marginally ok against players. Now its marginally ok against creeps and towers, and useless against players - especially with the new reckoning nerf.

SUGGESTION: Change it back! This used to be a powerful pushing tool, now all its good for is hitting creeps and accidently pulling tower aggro!

4) Intervention? I really have mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, the number of times I've thought 'damn, I wish I could bubble YOU instead' is phenomenal, and now that I'll be able to I can see a new window of opportunity for Kayle has a strong balanced offense/support character. However...moving it to the ultimate slot and increasing its cool down seems a little harsh. It used to be excellent for protection from early game ganks, but now its going to take so long to get (and so long to recharge) that I don't see it being very useful at all in a defensive sense. Especially since its maintained its 4 second duration. Plus, can't another hero already do this? Without using an ultimate slot?

SUGGESTION: This one is the hardest for me to come up with a suggestion for, because I like some parts of it and don't like others. I'd say if its staying in the ultimate slot, increase the duration or reduce the cool down (I seriously doubt doing both would maintain any sort of balance).

5) Divine Fervor. This skill was cool before. Since it wasn't nerfed in any way, its not particularly bad either. But its quite clear that the change to it was an attempt to make up for sacrificing reckoning as a useful skill. Honestly, Increased attack speed when an ally dies. What a laughable buff. How many times are you honestly going to want to chase an enemy down and kill them after one of your allies dies? I don't know about other people, but generally if I'm paired with someone and one of my allies dies, thats generally a good indication that either a) I'm next or b) I need to get away asap. Increasing my attack speed when an ally dies...hey, maybe if they killed themselves on a turret I can use it to take the turret down faster! Other then that I see very little practical application. Especially when compared to the old Reckoning, this ability seems more like it was thrown in as a formality rather then for any sort of attempt at balance.

SUGGESTION: Assuming no changes made to reckoning, when an ally dies increase your attack/move speed and attack/ability power? Maybe even something creative like 'when an ally nearby dies, all of your skills get +50% mana cost, but all your attacks deal +50% damage.' I dunno, just throwing that out there.


Kayle has from my experience (and the experiences of the people I've played with) been a seriously underplayed character. From the few times I've fought against her, she's been a threat - yet NOT overpowered. Since I generally play as her, I previously felt that she was a strong character, but took some experience to play well - when to pop your ult and push a lane, when to try and snipe a kill, when to get out to escape pressure, when to apply pressure or chase enemies down. I never have got the sense that she was overpowered, nor has anyone ever complained to me about her being overpowered. So why does it seem that they've just been heaping nerfs on her?

Maybe my opinions will change once I play with the changes, but all of the changes I've seen so far have been more or less unnecessary. Its unbelievably irritating to have to change my entire play style over changes that weren't needed at all.

Granted, this is all my opinion. And if I have just managed to miss a huge problem with Kayle in the past that everyone but me has experienced, then ok I can admit to being wrong. But I honestly don't see where those changes come from, or why they were needed.

Just thought I'd express my concerns instead of ranting and raving on my friends


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Zeyk

Member

09-17-2009

Play the game and call me in the morning.


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ImaBastard

Senior Member

09-18-2009

Quote:
reckoning
Noun
1. counting or calculating: by his reckoning, he owed him money
2. retribution for one's actions: the moment of reckoning came
3. settlement of an account or bill
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Reckoning

Actions taken by the other team should definitely have something to do with reckoning.
Otherwise it just doesn't quite live up to its name. :P


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Xocolatl

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Senior Member

09-18-2009

The most shocking thing for me is finding out that Kayle is a she.
I never played Kayle before, but I have fought her in almost every game I played. I have to say that Reckoning was truly a sight to behold, and her signature skill. I do agree that the stun is probably OP, but I do like the increased damage after ally's death (even though it's usually me who ends up eating that increased damage). Maybe the bonus damage could be lowered, but it should be there in some form, since it was just so damn cool.


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owndinswill

Member

09-18-2009

Ok...My story so far, i loved trist made her my main, nerfed, played blitz, got nerffed, played kayle, got nerffed.
I'm pretty scared to now make teemo,ashe, yi, anyone my main and they will get nerffed.
You get used to 1 player over 2-4 weeks then nerf it every time kinda frustrating .

Kinda getting a little annoyed, now that you cant play kayle the same way as before.
She is now a support class with low dmg skills output with no thought what so ever to go 1v1 against her.
Anyone can solo her, as to by the time u click on ur ulti then yourself its already to late. The double clicking **** is way too annoying.
The flame wave's have become nothing better tan ****, unless its against minions.
So the only way for kayle now is mana + AP stacking.

Back to a new main


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TwoFatNuts

Adjudicator

09-18-2009

Nice post TwilightsCall, its clear you have some very good insight here and honestly I agree with 90% of what you've said.

The change to Reckoning's bonus was unnecessary. You know how many times I've been dropped by Reck and thought 'man that was too much dmg', ONCE EVER. And I was probably wrong. Its a lil peice of flavor that makes the hero FUN and yet not even close to OP.

Next is Rightious Fury. THIS IS AN EPIC MOVE WHY REMOVE IT FROM ULT SLOT? Bad, bad idea. Do you need this before lvl 6? Not really.... Do you need Intervention before lvl 6? I would say almost definately. In a game where people die before the first creep wave in 50%+ of the games, this spell is essential to early game.

Divine Fervor....****. Why would you try to make her a support/healer/protector hero but then only give her a buff when she fails at that role? Come on! Also, say you do get this buff.....its a **** buff. Are you gonna go running into that 3-man gank that just dropped your teammate? All the attack speed in the world isnt gonna keep you from getting cc'd and decimated.

In my humble opinion this change was unnecessary and poorly executed. You took a fun, unique hero who has an answer for just about every situation (pushing/escaping/chasing/harassing) and turned her into a mediocre support hero who gets a buff when the people she is supporting die....


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JaqenITA

Member

09-18-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFatNuts View Post
Nice post TwilightsCall, its clear you have some very good insight here and honestly I agree with 90% of what you've said.

The change to Reckoning's bonus was unnecessary. You know how many times I've been dropped by Reck and thought 'man that was too much dmg', ONCE EVER. And I was probably wrong. Its a lil peice of flavor that makes the hero FUN and yet not even close to OP.

Next is Rightious Fury. THIS IS AN EPIC MOVE WHY REMOVE IT FROM ULT SLOT? Bad, bad idea. Do you need this before lvl 6? Not really.... Do you need Intervention before lvl 6? I would say almost definately. In a game where people die before the first creep wave in 50%+ of the games, this spell is essential to early game.

Divine Fervor....****. Why would you try to make her a support/healer/protector hero but then only give her a buff when she fails at that role? Come on! Also, say you do get this buff.....its a **** buff. Are you gonna go running into that 3-man gank that just dropped your teammate? All the attack speed in the world isnt gonna keep you from getting cc'd and decimated.

In my humble opinion this change was unnecessary and poorly executed. You took a fun, unique hero who has an answer for just about every situation (pushing/escaping/chasing/harassing) and turned her into a mediocre support hero who gets a buff when the people she is supporting die....
I can only agree.


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Mirax

Recruiter

09-18-2009

I fully agree as well.


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owndinswill

Member

09-18-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFatNuts View Post
Nice post TwilightsCall, its clear you have some very good insight here and honestly I agree with 90% of what you've said.

The change to Reckoning's bonus was unnecessary. You know how many times I've been dropped by Reck and thought 'man that was too much dmg', ONCE EVER. And I was probably wrong. Its a lil peice of flavor that makes the hero FUN and yet not even close to OP.

Next is Rightious Fury. THIS IS AN EPIC MOVE WHY REMOVE IT FROM ULT SLOT? Bad, bad idea. Do you need this before lvl 6? Not really.... Do you need Intervention before lvl 6? I would say almost definately. In a game where people die before the first creep wave in 50%+ of the games, this spell is essential to early game.

Divine Fervor....****. Why would you try to make her a support/healer/protector hero but then only give her a buff when she fails at that role? Come on! Also, say you do get this buff.....its a **** buff. Are you gonna go running into that 3-man gank that just dropped your teammate? All the attack speed in the world isnt gonna keep you from getting cc'd and decimated.

In my humble opinion this change was unnecessary and poorly executed. You took a fun, unique hero who has an answer for just about every situation (pushing/escaping/chasing/harassing) and turned her into a mediocre support hero who gets a buff when the people she is supporting die....
Basicly my thoughts exactly, what was once a fun hero to play, has now become a heavy boring UP champion to play


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Rhaz

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

09-18-2009

Aside from one rather glaring bug (I hope?) this new implementation of Kayle is actually pretty good. Prior to the patch I had pretty much played Kayle exclusively, and after reading the notes I was expecting to never play her again. Then.. someone beat me to Katarina, so I tried it out. Overall, Kayle is still a powerhouse, but with a lot more support.

First, the Reckoning bonus condition probably did not need to be removed, but for me it wasn't exactly a huge deal. The snare reduction on Reckoning does suck, but the damage and ratio is still the same, so while the ability did eat two nerfs for the majority of gameplay it is not even noticeable.

The change to divine blessing is huge, the healing amount is significant, and it scaled at somewhere around .6 per ap. The exact cooldowns are off, since I had cd runes on but it displayed as 60/90/120/150/160heal and 8/10/12/14/16 movement speed on about a 13.5sec cooldown. The biggest problem with this ability is that... the heal doesn't work on other players, which I really, really hope is a bug. They will get the movement speed buff but no heal, so I'm really not positive if it is intended or not.

For Righteous Fury, I'm not sure how I feel about the new implementation. Once again, cooldowns are off, but it displayed as 30/40/50/60/70% splash and the cooldown was something like 45/40/35/30/25, once again, those numbers are off due to runes (I think). The ability to have it up to use significantly more often is nice for range and pushing, but the loss of bonus damage to give it that extra punch is kind of saddening.

The change to intervention is actually really nice as well. The range on it is not as large as the heal (which is very large btw) but it is still enough to be very effective. The cooldown is (I assume, didn't get a chance to get more than 2 pts in it) 55/45/35. It is a pretty significant nerf to Kayles ability to just beastmode through towers, but it is really a lot more effective for team play.

Overall, after playing Kayle I was pleasantly surprised, as she can still play pretty much any of the roles that she could previously, and has some pretty amazing support to go with it.


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