Taunt and Joke Spam

First Riot Post
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Takomancer

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Senior Member

06-01-2010

I support this thread. I really do miss the ability to spam emotes.


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ILIKEGRAPE

Member

06-01-2010

I can see how it can be a problem but couldn't you make a sound option similar to the FPS settings which limits the amount of sound resources being used at one time to eliminate that problem on low end computers?

Would the same problem occur during a team fight from the multiple abilities sounds being used or is it not a similar case?


I understand your response, but I think it is a minimal problem if it occurs mainly near the end of the game at the nexus destruction because you barely have any time to do it in. And after that time you are unable to use client-side commands because of that.


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BroForgotnglory

Senior Member

06-01-2010

After hearing how spamming can slow down the game i cant imagine why anyone would still want it in.

However i am curious as to the problems this caused in other departments as well.


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RyuuKitten

Senior Member

06-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaywatford View Post
@Golduck: Thanks very much for your reply. If you'd like to look at the thread where users brought up 'sound tearing' as we call it (though everyone has their own description of the resulting audio), please visit this one..

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=18783
Woah. Woah. woah woah woah.

You removed something for a complaint that happened 7 MONTHS ago? I mean come on now, we're talking over half of a year. If it was a huge issue, then it should have been addressed -then- when the game was still in beta, not 6 or 7 months down the line.

Now assuming, each audio stream is a "channel" and every single person was spaming it, that's...10 channels, unless each instance opens a new channel. In which case it seems to me that fixing -that- issue is what you should be doing, not removing a feature most people enjoyed.

Further more, if these "CPU" issues exist, then load it into the RAM too. You're not playing back lossless FLAC or something are you? The memory footprint is fairly low, loading a bit more isn't going to kill anyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BroForgotnglory View Post
After hearing how spamming can slow down the game i cant imagine why anyone would still want it in.

However i am curious as to the problems this caused in other departments as well.
I'm sorry, I call bull**** on that "slowing the game down" and it it does there's an easy fix - don't stream it.


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RiotJay

Associate Sound Designer

06-02-2010
3 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDHAMMER View Post
As the tech was already in place to be able to spam, why not just provide an option in-game that allows the feature to be turned off or on if it is causing FPS problems? You would make an both sides of the debate happy with such a choice.
From the outset, I'd like to clarify that I'm not an engineer, so this one is beyond my expertise. I will say that it is a big change in the way we currently handle audio in our game though. As it stands, our game simply sends an event call into FMOD, and all of the settings (including playback behavior) are handled within FMOD.

Certainly it must be possible to send parameter change to FMOD, but it does change it from a simple FMOD task to a new feature in that has to be added by code. From the audio team's perspective, we'd rather see bugs we've been fighting to get fixed handled before a new feature like this is added (sound in FOW, the way our game functions in 5.1 and so on), but at the end of the day what gets engineering time is beyond our control.

Again though, I'd like to stress as I did in my first post that I'm simply speaking for the audio teams qualms with emote spam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDHAMMER View Post
Why give the sound the short end of the stick and one-track it's presence in the game?
I like the way you think... =D

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILIKEGRAPE View Post

Would the same problem occur during a team fight from the multiple abilities sounds being used or is it not a similar case?
It is indeed a similar case (it's super awesome to have to guys discussing sound system stuff with on our forums!). When ability sounds are used in a big fight, they steal channels from smaller sounds (minion attacks, basic attacks, environmental sounds ect.) It's hardly noticable because the sounds that are stolen in normal situations tend to be pretty quite and obscured by louder stuff. The problem arises when you added multiple channels of emote spams to the equation. Unit VO is always higher priority than spells because it sounds awful when VO cuts in and out, so if there is enough emote spam they will begin eating up channels for big sounds that are very noticeable when they cut out.

The reality of a game like ours is that channels are limited, there will always be a situation where something is silenced for something else to play. As a result, we simply strive to make that reality as hidden as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuuKitten View Post
Woah. Woah. woah woah woah.

You removed something for a complaint that happened 7 MONTHS ago? I mean come on now, we're talking over half of a year. If it was a huge issue, then it should have been addressed -then- when the game was still in beta, not 6 or 7 months down the line.
This brings up a question I have for you guys: When do you think emote spam was removed? Or, when was the last time you actually used it in game?


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ILIKEGRAPE

Member

06-02-2010

I have a terrible memory as days just seem to blend into eachother now after coming home from Iraq, but I got home in January, and I believe I started in Feb. (of this year)

Taunt spamming was in the game for as long as I can remember, and I remember specifically stating to the people I group with in ventrilo that it was removed and everyone tried it and confirmed to me that it was removed.

I'm pretty sure late feb/march.


Why are you limited to so many channels?

If putting the voice overs into the memory would remove or minimize this issue would it not be the way to go? I doubt loading 30 sounds would increase loadtime significantly and then you removed the CPU hit from loading from disk.


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iNsAyNe

Senior Member

06-02-2010

I actually stumbled upon a large change when I was playing as Fiddlesticks before and after a patch earlier this year.

I was previously able to channel a spell such as Drain and then use a /j or /t command and Fiddlesticks would animate into his joke or taunt while still channeling Drain. After the next patch, I attempted to do this again and it just didn't work.

It seems like there was a large change to voice commands sometime in March, but the removal of emote looping was probably around Feb as Grapes said. Either way, ninja changes usually aren't noticed as quickly as announced ones.


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Doctor Awesome

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Is it possible that an option could be put in the sound menu that would prevent the user from hearing jokes/taunts? If that were implemented, you could put back in the spam, and anyone who didn't want to hear it, or suffered performance problems when they did, could simply 'mute' them. That works for everyone, right?

That said, somehow I suspect that would actually be somewhat difficult to implement...

EDIT: Actually read through your last post, disregard. Far outside what the sound team can worry about at the moment, and definitely a low-priority situation.

If nothing else, props to the Riot sound team for doing so much for the unique character of the game. You guys are doing a great job!


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RyuuKitten

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaywatford View Post
This brings up a question I have for you guys: When do you think emote spam was removed? Or, when was the last time you actually used it in game?
It was definately still in january and I believe febuary as well. So that's... 4 months after that post, not including all the time in beta that if this had been an issue it could have been removed then.


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RiotJay

Associate Sound Designer

06-02-2010
4 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILIKEGRAPE View Post
Why are you limited to so many channels?

If putting the voice overs into the memory would remove or minimize this issue would it not be the way to go? I doubt loading 30 sounds would increase loadtime significantly and then you removed the CPU hit from loading from disk.

Thanks for the response, and great questions. We are limited in channels by what a users sound card is able to handle. 32 is average, 16 is low end, but still common (they still sell lower if you want to pay under $10, blaaaaahhh). High end can go well above 32.

As for loading into memory, that is set on a per bank basis, meaning we'd need to produce an extra bank just for these sounds. It would be annoying for us to have to handle an extra one, but would be awful for localization who has to handle the number of banks time the number of languages they handle (and man they handle a lot). While it's a great on your toes solution on the small scale, it is far from ideal on the large.

Also, an increase in load time at all is no light matter, especially when you consider how it balloons on low end machines. Our loads are already pretty brutal, so we'd like to help rather than hurt. Not saying this is a deal breaker, but it's certainly not a selling point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
If nothing else, props to the Riot sound team for doing so much for the unique character of the game. You guys are doing a great job!
Thanks so much! It's sometimes tough to hit up these forums considering how much work I have outside of it constantly bearing down, but these kind of responses make it all worth it! We really and truly appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDHAMMER View Post
It seems like there was a large change to voice commands sometime in March, but the removal of emote looping was probably around Feb as Grapes said. Either way, ninja changes usually aren't noticed as quickly as announced ones.
My mistake if the intent of my question was a little vague. We're in no way trying to say that any argument/suggestion/feedback is invalid because it's in the game for any amount of time, that's not the nature of our game at all. To echo ILIKEGRAPE's sentiments, with all the things we work on it's impossible to have a proper time-line in our head, I was hoping you could help me out with it. Sorry if that came off as dismissing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuuKitten View Post
It was definately still in january and I believe febuary as well. So that's... 4 months after that post, not including all the time in beta that if this had been an issue it could have been removed then.
I understand that the time line seems outrageous, but sometimes it's just a fact. As much as it sucks, I'd point out the fact that hearing sounds through the FOW was reported months ago, or remind you how long it took to fix the bug where bluepill and powerball loop forever. These are actual, indisputable bugs! We try and stay as nimble as possible on the sound team, responding to what we can within a patch are two, but at the end of the day we're audio guys, not specialists in every area. We fight everyday, but audio in a game is not solely implemented by the audio team and you don't always win the fight for other peoples time, especially with a game like ours that's not just about fixing, but also about constant creation.

Sad fact of life for us that's honestly getting better these days, but still exists.

On a side note since we're discussing it, we have some fixes coming out soon that people have been asking for for awhile that I'm personally really happy about.



Quick side note edit: Nothing would make us happier than if you campaigned to fixing audio bugs the same way you do for spamming emotes at each other. We hope this opens the door for more audio suggestions/gripes on a rarely traveled little section of the forums!