The Debate is over, Noxus is Corrupt and Evil

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belthazor3457

Senior Member

09-13-2011

I think it's a little unfair to declare Noxus corrupt at this point. Riven's judgement and story has so many problems with it (and I outlined a number of them on my lengthy post on the 2nd page of this thread, it's like the 5th one down)

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1213594&page=2

In short, I highlighted a number of flaws with the story that make it difficult to accept it as canon lore. Just my personal opinion, but I feel that after making so many champions so quickly for such a long time, Riot's running out of steam for lore ideas. Based on the issues I mentioned in that thread (later backed up further by her league judgement) I just don't accept Riven's lore as canon without some major altercations to it to make her story fit.

Read my post if you want to, it's a bit lengthy though, so be forewarned.

As for the other issues you pointed out with other characters, I need to go soon, but I may make an edit or another post to address them a bit later.



EDIT: Reserved for a future response to the other characters.


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KiteMeGood

Senior Member

09-13-2011

She still abandoned the city-state like many other "good" Noxians (Xin Zhao, Alistar and argurably Sivir). The true Noxians (Katarina, Sion, Swain, LeBlanc, Talon) are rotton to the very core.


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Poruku

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Senior Member

09-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Midget View Post
Singed acting on his own doesn't make Noxus corrupt. After all Riven is a noxian and wasen't corrupt, correct?
If Noxus uses Zaunite mass death weapons for extermination, the 'fault' is still on Noxus. They still pulled the trigger.

Also, in regards to you saying Riven is a noxian and isn't corrupt:
She was was a pawn in the war. We know this because:
Quote:
Riven never understood why that day went the way it did. She didnít know why Noxus depended on Zaunís horrific techmaturgy instead of its own military. She didnít know why she didnít see the ambush coming. She didnít know why she survived.
And corruption amoung low ranks doesn't happen. Well, if it does, it's because it has happened higher up and worked its way down.


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belthazor3457

Senior Member

09-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiteMeGood View Post
She still abandoned the city-state like many other "good" Noxians (Xin Zhao, Alistar and argurably Sivir). The true Noxians (Katarina, Sion, Swain, LeBlanc, Talon) are rotton to the very core.
That's not a fair judgement. There's no proof that Katarina, Sion, Swain, and LeBlanc are corrupt as individuals. There's evidence that Swain and LeBlanc are plotting to take control of Noxus, but wouldn't that be your duty also as a Noxian citizen if you saw the nation heading down a path of self-destruction?

Also, Xin Alistar and Sivir are not Noxian. Sivir worked for Noxus for a long time as a merc, Xin was a war prisoner, and Alistar was from, if I recall correctly, a mountain Minotaur clan not aligned with any city.

I'd like to see what your evidence is for calling Katarina, Sion, Swain, and LeBlanc corrupt. I leave Talon out simply because I havn't had much opportunity to look into his lore.


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KiteMeGood

Senior Member

09-13-2011

The Noxus Champions tends to be more on the sadistic side when it comes to combat often talking about how much suffering they are going to inflict before finishing you off. Demacian death swift and clean, Zaunite and Noxian death will have you suffering from intolerable agony before the final blow.

If they are not corrupt they are still extremely sadistic at the very least.

And Sivir defected from the Noxian Military to become a merc.


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VelikiDrMr

Senior Member

09-13-2011

"'Good' and 'evil' are just words used to describe psychological constructs that are relative to specific cultures and differ between them, such that what's 'good' in one society's eyes may be 'evil' in another's?
Ho ho! What nonsense that is! Everyone knows that Good and Evil are absolutes, largely defined by the Light and Dark elements. We all know that any action can be definitively and unquestionably defined as Good or Evil or Neutral regardless of circumstances, with no exceptions!!
Furthermore, we all know that people are born Good or Evil and their life follows their absolute moral leaning without change. Why, this is just the way our world works, and nobody can tell me otherwise!
'Good', of course, generally refers to putting others before yourself, and 'Evil' is the opposite, putting yourself first. Neutral is a happy medium. What do you mean, 'it all depends on circumstances'? You sure do insist on talking nonense, my boy!
What do you mean, 'who am I talking to'? Bah! Enough of this! I'm writing a book! Now, as I was saying, Good is good and Evil is evil and that is that.
How do you know whether you're Good or Evil or wishy-washy Neutral? Well, when you meet a stranger, do you gut him or give him all your generic gold coins? What do you mean, 'neither, and those are ridiculous extremes'? I've had enough of you! Shut up!"

So yeah, Noxus isn't evil, they just use methods others think are less than honorable, but like anyone cares what others think. Also, they are not corrupt, it's called politics.


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Poruku

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Senior Member

09-13-2011

Quote:
"'Good' and 'evil' are just words used to describe psychological constructs that are relative to specific cultures and differ between them, such that what's 'good' in one society's eyes may be 'evil' in another's?
I'm gonna be blunt: You're over analysing it now. :/


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Lady Cardboard

Senior Member

09-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by belthazor3457 View Post
That's not a fair judgement. There's no proof that Katarina, Sion, Swain, and LeBlanc are corrupt as individuals. There's evidence that Swain and LeBlanc are plotting to take control of Noxus, but wouldn't that be your duty also as a Noxian citizen if you saw the nation heading down a path of self-destruction?

Also, Xin Alistar and Sivir are not Noxian. Sivir worked for Noxus for a long time as a merc, Xin was a war prisoner, and Alistar was from, if I recall correctly, a mountain Minotaur clan not aligned with any city.

I'd like to see what your evidence is for calling Katarina, Sion, Swain, and LeBlanc corrupt. I leave Talon out simply because I havn't had much opportunity to look into his lore.
From what we know from the lore, Noxians who are aligned with General Du Couteau are not truly evil and are actively/secretly looking to stop the war with Demacia. Katarina and Garen stopping the fight at the bar incident from escalating further is a small example. Talon is also leaving letters for Garen/Demacia to give them a clue as to what is going on within Noxus and maybe work together secretly to stop what dirty plot is going on.

Team Du Couteau: Katarina, Talon, Cassiopeia, and possibly Riven (maybe gave her the sword/taught her how to fight honorably)


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VelikiDrMr

Senior Member

09-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poruku View Post
I'm gonna be blunt: You're over analysing it now. :/
I'm just bored with everyone throwing around the words evil and corrupted.


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Methelod

Senior Member

09-13-2011

To be honest... I ignore threads like these because evil and corrupt are relative terms. To me, noxus is a strong neutral that adheres to it's moral code. While Demacia is the evil one because they preach one set of morals and obey another, which forces innocents into war and then claims to be doing something for the greater good.


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