Why mana barrier?

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Solus

Senior Member

05-26-2010

"Passives are meant to round out a character" That's what a dev told us in some forum post long ago. They're not meant to be built around, they're not meant to be balanced compared to other passives, their sole purpose is to provide some sort of effect that balances the champion as a whole. Poppy has one of the best passives in the game, so does Ryze. Can you picture Karthus with Ryze's passive? No cooldown lay wastes. How about Tryndamere with Nasus' passive? He'd be the jungle king and virtually unstoppable with 20% lifesteal.

I can't tell you how many times a Blitz has slipped away with 100 hp and a 400 hp shield.


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

05-26-2010

However, sometimes passives MAKE the character, like Mordekaiser.

On that subject, Blitz is fine.


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Techno Stud

Senior Member

05-26-2010

I really don't think the passive is bad. It serves as a good warning sign for when you need to gtfo of a team fight.


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Prosecutor Godot

Senior Member

05-26-2010

It's one of the best passives for towerdiving and mind games. If you make a build around it, with CDR and lots of MP (Frozen Heart comes to mind...), you're pretty tanky, except the opponent's can't really predict how much damage your shield can absorb, often overextending to their death.


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Krimson

Senior Member

05-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solus View Post
"Passives are meant to round out a character" That's what a dev told us in some forum post long ago. They're not meant to be built around, they're not meant to be balanced compared to other passives, their sole purpose is to provide some sort of effect that balances the champion as a whole.
So tell me, in what way is Mana Barrier built around Blitzcranks skills? Other than the fact that Blitz has terrible mana costs and mana pools. What do Blitzcranks spellls have to do with mana? Unless you build it up, its health bar is so weak that any spell would take it out. If you make Blitzcrank spend mana, why not pool it back into his health then? Why temporary?

Lets take some of your examples.
Tryndamere - He needs to crit a lot, therefore his passive improves critical
Poppy - She runs in a lot, therefore, a shield
Singed - Large mana pool allows him to leave Q untapped for long dashes
Shaco - His abilities force people to run, thus exposing their backs
Cho'Gath - Killing 3 creeps heals as much as mana barrier blocks, but yes, MF'in Cho needs to keep recovering.

See where im going? Everybody somehow has a way to link their abilities to their passives. But how does Blitzcrank's mana actually link to anything? Its a conditional passive. Any explanation you give can just be tacked onto somebody else. Pin mana barrier on Veigar, and people will explain how his "mage" abilities form a mana barrier to protect him since hes so squishy. And it'll probably work the same way if not better, because Veigar actually needs a large mana pool.


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Kmacc

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Senior Member

05-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson View Post
b) Use that money on a Wargmogs for double the health benefits
This is a problem in your statement, warmogs is terrible on blitz due to his subpar farming ability and the fact it takes about 120 minion kills once you get the item to be able to max its benefits. another note is tanks are actually better off stacking armor/MR to tank rather than just a large health pool (yes health is a good stat for tanking but it is NOT the best stat contrary to popular belief). If you only stack health and no resistances you are just a harder to kill squishy rather than a tank so actually a frozen heart is a great item for blitz becuase not only does it make him harder to kill it synergizes well with his passive and his high mana cost and also has 20% CDR which also helps blitz a lot.


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Krimson

Senior Member

05-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmacc View Post
This is a problem in your statement, warmogs is terrible on blitz due to his subpar farming ability and the fact it takes about 120 minion kills once you get the item to be able to max its benefits. another note is tanks are actually better off stacking armor/MR to tank rather than just a large health pool (yes health is a good stat for tanking but it is NOT the best stat contrary to popular belief). If you only stack health and no resistances you are just a harder to kill squishy rather than a tank so actually a frozen heart is a great item for blitz becuase not only does it make him harder to kill it synergizes well with his passive and his high mana cost and also has 20% CDR which also helps blitz a lot.
I only use Wargmogs as a standpoint of the best health gain item in the game, no I do not actually buy it, that'd be dumb. Gawd, everyone picks on that tiny detail, I should just edit it out.

Ok fine, how about this. A sunfire cape. Its much cheaper than Frozen heart, boosts his farming, but adds double the effective health with armor bonuses.

A frozen mallet then, same cost as Frozen Heart, triple the health. And that health actually benefits from resistances.

I know resistances are the better form of defense, so why then would you bother getting mana which is the equivalent of HALF health stacking. Additionally, since resistances are better, them not applying to mana barrier thus means even attempting to boost mana barrier would be a useless endeavor.


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Krimson

Senior Member

05-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
Most tanks have pathetic base stats, and probably nothing special on defensive skills

Blitz isnt a get focused fire tank, hes more of a burst initiator

Find me then, a tank that does not have any form of shielding, health recovery, or damage resistance.


Fine, ill make an explanation that is clear to more people.

Anivia, imagine if her egg form had a 1 minute cooldown. A buff! Hurray! Wait for it... BUT when she goes into egg form, half her mana is drained and will be how much health goes into the egg +20% of your base life. If you had 1000 mana, you become an egg with 500 life+ 20% which is normally 400 life. So you become a 900 health egg.

If her mana was lower, like say 500, she'd become a 650 health egg. And later revives with 250 mana.

How many of you can agree, that this would be good for Anivia?


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Alent

Senior Member

05-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson View Post
So tell me, in what way is Mana Barrier built around Blitzcranks skills? [...] Any explanation you give can just be tacked onto somebody else.
I'm not sure I understand why you feel this way - it seems to me that most people in this thread have pointed out that it is fairly easy to rack up a large amount of mana while still obtaining items that work well with Blitz's other abilities. I'm not sure why you say Blitz's mana costs are terrible, either. His Rocket Grab costs 140 mana and deals 300 dmg at level 18. in contrast, annie's disintegrate deals 260 and costs 120 mana at level 18. dark matter costs veiger 180 mana and deals 360 damage (this is all unmodified). I'd say it's on par with other champion's bread and butter attacks.

I'm also not sure I see your point about tacking his passive on to other people. Sure, you can find an explanation that fits with most champion's lore, but they have their own passives. Mana Barrier is a boon to Blitz's tanking ability, thus rounding him out in that fashion. Are you saying that because you could think ways to make this other champions passive that it is pointless? what about garen's passive then? or soraka's, amumu's, or any other the other champions that have a passive that could conceivably synergize with another champion's skillset. I don't think we need to start reassigning passives just because they seem like they fit with other champions as well.


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BADPhildo

Senior Member

05-26-2010

1) There's nothing wrong with his passive, it works extremely well and I find it rather entertaining when people get greedy and forget about it.
2) Why do you main a character you apparently hate?
3) There are items that give you mana and AP, or mana and Heatlh... buy them.