[Guide]Warwick is just a win machine

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Krald

Senior Member

05-24-2010

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Originally Posted by Uragaan View Post
you got 31 points in ur masteries.
Yikes thanks for the catch!

I meant 1/18/11


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Ovy

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Interesting take on WW - definitely inspired me to give him another shot, as my main frustration was dying in every team fight no matter what because I built him pure damage output.

Here's my issue. The way you build you don't do a ton of damage outside your ultimate. As you mentioned, WW is not a carry; but if not, then what is his role in team fights? I wouldn't really consider it to be support - maybe he could partially fulfill that role with the auras you bring along with your suggested itemization. As you also mentioned, he is great at taking a tank down to 2/3 health with his ult, but you don't really want to be jumping on a tank to start a team fight, because a) he's the wrong target, and b) if you're initiating, you're dead werewolf meat.

So what niche are you filling in team fights? I can think of much better support toons, far stronger burst dps, and obviously better tanks. It seems that you're just an effective mop up guy, which, imo, is kind of a waste of a team member.

As far as team fights are concerned, I figure your role is to wait for the initiators to do their thing, pop your W, Q any high health dps or tank, and auto-attack the burn target, saving your ult for a) someone that needs to be stunned (nunu and fiddle come to mind) or b) to kill someone escaping. Is that it? Seems underwhelming to me. Would love to hear your thoughts.


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Krald

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrard View Post
Interesting take on WW - definitely inspired me to give him another shot, as my main frustration was dying in every team fight no matter what because I built him pure damage output.

Here's my issue. The way you build you don't do a ton of damage outside your ultimate. As you mentioned, WW is not a carry; but if not, then what is his role in team fights? I wouldn't really consider it to be support - maybe he could partially fulfill that role with the auras you bring along with your suggested itemization. As you also mentioned, he is great at taking a tank down to 2/3 health with his ult, but you don't really want to be jumping on a tank to start a team fight, because a) he's the wrong target, and b) if you're initiating, you're dead werewolf meat.

So what niche are you filling in team fights? I can think of much better support toons, far stronger burst dps, and obviously better tanks. It seems that you're just an effective mop up guy, which, imo, is kind of a waste of a team member.

As far as team fights are concerned, I figure your role is to wait for the initiators to do their thing, pop your W, Q any high health dps or tank, and auto-attack the burn target, saving your ult for a) someone that needs to be stunned (nunu and fiddle come to mind) or b) to kill someone escaping. Is that it? Seems underwhelming to me. Would love to hear your thoughts.

I didn't say you should initiate on tanks with your ultimate. This is a terrible idea. Obviously use your discretion, generally you can find people out of position with your ultimate and score a kill before a teamfight even happens. If you were to ask me what Warwick's role was, the best possible example would be that he is nearly exactly like Sivir's role. (if you think that Sivir is a waste of a spot, then I don't know what to tell you) Do damage, stay alive, support with auras, chase and kill fleeing champions. Sivir slightly does one of these better than warwick, but warwick chases IMMENSELY better than Sivir. Cleaning up is way more important than you would think, as it opens the door for crazy tower pushes and some really quick victories. Also, a huge difference between these two champions, is that Warwick is a jungle hero. Giving your team two solos is nothing to scoff at, especially if you are paired with smart players or run premades with people who know how to pick at least two solo champions. Combined with ganking with red rune at 3, your solo dragon at 5, and the two solos, your team will outlevel the other team substantially.

Also, you shouldn't normally save your ultimate. Obviously against certain champs like you described this is a good idea, but generally you want to use it as soon as possible. This is because in many cases I have been able to use my ultimate twice in one drawn out engagement due to the reduction i have in cooldowns from golem/runes/and eventually frozen heart. (yes I know it caps at 40 but once you get frozen heart golem should be going to someone else anyways) With proper team management, an uncleansed Warwick ult on someone=kill. I wish I had the numbers for my ult-other player death ratio, but I'm sure its pretty ridiculous.

oh, and when I spoke about him being a tank melter, I should have been more clear. This doesn't mean you should simply auto attack the tank in teamfights, it just means that if there is a need for a tank to die, WW makes this an easy task for your team.


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Ovy

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Krald, Thanks for the clarification. I want to narrow our discussion a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krald View Post
Do damage, stay alive, support with auras, chase and kill fleeing champions.
This is the focus of my concern. "Do damage" and "Stay alive" are decidedly vague descriptions of what to be doing in a team fight, and that's where I'm lost. I agree - if you can pick off an enemy out of position with your ult, awesome. However, when it comes to 5v5 full blown team fights, I struggle. Usually, I go straight for the kill target after my tank initiates, sometimes ulting if available. That target generally dies, but then I am way into the thick of it and tend to die very quickly.

Wazzabi, in his excellent guide (imo) suggests that dying here is natural and OK; so long as their carry is down, your team should come out on top. My experience here has been fairly mixed. Sometimes your team comes out on top, other times, my teammates can't get the job done (I tend to solo queue often). This also seems to be a very easy way to lose the auras you're bringing for your team. Is it your experience that you die here often? What should I be doing to "Stay alive" here? Is it just a bad spot to get yourself into in the first place? Please be more specific here rather than "do damage" and "stay alive" if possible. I understand a lot of this just comes with experience, but any guidance is appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krald View Post
Giving your team two solos is nothing to scoff at, especially if you are paired with smart players or run premades with people who know how to pick at least two solo champions. Combined with ganking with red rune at 3, your solo dragon at 5, and the two solos, your team will outlevel the other team substantially.
I think this is the key, and what makes Warwick such a valuable team asset. I'm just not sure it outweighs what generally seems to me to be a liability in team fights.


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Krald

Senior Member

05-24-2010

You definitely have some really great questions and I'm glad you brought them up in a polite manner. Sorry that I was very vague.

Honestly I would say that teamfighting properly is what separates decent Warwicks from ones that single-handedly change games. You've certainly inspired me to get some logistics together in this regard and write a section devoted to this. Generally, if I'm allowed to open up my ult on an enemy that's out of position, if they don't die during I will simply back out appropriately and wait for Q to be back up. My primary concern is staying alive at this stage in the fight. Keeping myself up and providing my team with all of my aura bonuses is much more useful than a quick kill on a champion followed by my death.
If you are fighting near brush, it is your friend. Juke in and out with only popping out to use Q and auto-attack when the smoke has cleared a tid bit from the onslaught of aoe ultimates. I have literally stayed alive at different intervals of 10-400 hp for a full 15 seconds and got out alive because of proper juking and Q spammage. After the fight has been decided, if it was in your favor, this is where the team pays for their loss. I've gotten numerous multi-kills with Warwick, and almost all of them are killing retreating teams. Even if you get chain stunned while trying to chase, your absurd move-speed with your E and ghost will let you finish off basically anyone.

Anyways hope this helps, keep the discussion going as it has promoted some good thought


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Lordarcane

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Senior Member

05-24-2010

I have a question about what to do with my time as Warwick. As a laning champion, my purpose is clear: push towers until the nexus is destroyed. This is a goal which, by virtue of not being fulfilled until the last second of the game, allows for a single-mindedness of purpose -- I never feel like I don't know what I should be doing. With Warwick, I'm occasionally at a little of a loss. I know that as Warwick I have certain duties: pick up the buffs, kill the dragon, gank when the laners are in a suitable position, push a tower when the opportunity presents itself, and defend a tower when a teammate dies or needs to go to town. Despite the extensiveness of that list, sometimes none of those items need fulfillment: the dragon is down, I have full buffs, and the lanes are in my team's control but the enemies are holding their towers strong; even with my presence, the assault will be something of a lengthy stalemate. What then?


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xrats

Senior Member

05-24-2010

I never liked Warwick.There are better heroes to replace him and his ulti can be easily countered by cleanse.I dont see a reason to pick him on high elo or in good matches in general.


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Krald

Senior Member

05-24-2010

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Originally Posted by xrats View Post
I never liked Warwick.There are better heroes to replace him and his ulti can be easily countered by cleanse.I dont see a reason to pick him on high elo or in good matches in general.
Name a hero that do all of these things very very well:

Jungle/control buffs/dragon/nashor better than any other hero
Push towers
Gank
Chase
Melt tanks
Pick off Carries in the beginning of teamfights

As for cleanse? Make a mental note of who chooses cleanse. I literally have never had my ult cleansed. Know why? Because I make a mental note of who has the spell, and refrain from using it on them.

"omg what if everyone uses cleanse??"
Then learn your summoner spell cooldowns. Cleanse has a cooldown of 2 minutes, or 100 seconds if they are specced for it. Communicate with your team. Make sure to ask if their SS are down before you charge in like a typical warwick pubstar.

Don't bring your high ELO blanket statement garbage in here. I know about high ELO. I also know that Dan Dinh used Warwick in top level games before he was buffed.


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Krald

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordarcane View Post
I have a question about what to do with my time as Warwick. As a laning champion, my purpose is clear: push towers until the nexus is destroyed. This is a goal which, by virtue of not being fulfilled until the last second of the game, allows for a single-mindedness of purpose -- I never feel like I don't know what I should be doing. With Warwick, I'm occasionally at a little of a loss. I know that as Warwick I have certain duties: pick up the buffs, kill the dragon, gank when the laners are in a suitable position, push a tower when the opportunity presents itself, and defend a tower when a teammate dies or needs to go to town. Despite the extensiveness of that list, sometimes none of those items need fulfillment: the dragon is down, I have full buffs, and the lanes are in my team's control but the enemies are holding their towers strong; even with my presence, the assault will be something of a lengthy stalemate. What then?

Honestly, those are things that words or advice won't help you with. You would simply have to watch an experienced player play, as those are things you just have to know how to do as a player. Map awareness, positioning, timing buffs, timing tower pushes, and simply knowing how to flow properly are just a part of league of legends. The steepness of this curve is intensified as a jungler as it is very easy to get lazy, but its still just something that comes with experience with the game. I've personally been playing since closed beta, and in my peak playing days I was top 500 multiple times, playing with good deal of high level players, and the experience from that has helped me to just simply know what to do in matches at the appropriate time.


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Mcbooze

Senior Member

05-24-2010

awesome guide, and made WW fun again for me. props for the good work.

Quote:
You don't always need to constantly pump points into W, and you need points into E more than you think. The range increase is HUGE, and will net you a really hefty amount of kills.
you should bold this or something in your guide, that and completing madred's. the combination of these two things turned my WW game from a mediocre hero i used to play just to jungle into a beast of a ganker and pusher.