Suggestion: queue dodging

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Carados

Senior Member

05-25-2010

The problem isn't that people queue dodge to get what champion the want, the problem is that people think they alone should choose whatever champion they want regardless of team composition.

The fact that they are dodging in this case is a symptom of the underlying problem. You're only attempting to fix one symptom, and in doing so, encouraging the rest of the symptoms associated with the problem.

Think about this for about 40 seconds and realize why the suggestion is terrible.


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Leonson

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Senior Member

05-26-2010

And yet no one bothers with trying to talk to their team, say 'hey, we need this', or anything along those lines. They just bail.

If you're queueing alone for a game and you're complaining about the team makeup you're doing it wrong.

Now if the game actually gave you more than 90 seconds to pick a champion, respec your masteries, and maybe have more than 2 rune pages (So you could have a few different ones set up for different champions/builds), then balanced teams might happen more often.

But then, this isn't season 1. It's not competitive (aside from the standard macho bs). If you're unhappy with random teams get some friends or stop queueing.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
The problem isn't that people queue dodge to get what champion the want, the problem is that people think they alone should choose whatever champion they want regardless of team composition.

The fact that they are dodging in this case is a symptom of the underlying problem. You're only attempting to fix one symptom, and in doing so, encouraging the rest of the symptoms associated with the problem.

Think about this for about 40 seconds and realize why the suggestion is terrible.
So Carados, this sounds exactly like the type of posts you are making in the PTR Teemo feedback thread.

Something that needs improvement (Teemo, Queue Dodging) has a suggested improvement (by Riot, by myself), and your argument against each is that it "doesn't fix the entire problem".

Whatever happened to taking steps to fix something so that you don't overcompensate?
Should we just give all 3 of Teemo's abilities that do damage scale 1:1? That would make him MORE than viable.
Should we make queue dodging have a 24 hour ban? Then nobody would do it.

Overcompensating is not the issue, and you have failed to explain why THIS idea (allowing pre-select of champions in an effort to significantly reduce dodging on new-champ-weeks and slightly reduce it at other times) puts the system in a WORSE position than it is now. Or, alternately, why putting a system like it into place is counter-productive to the final system that you envision being functional.


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Carados

Senior Member

05-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
Something that needs improvement (Teemo, Queue Dodging) has a suggested improvement (by Riot, by myself), and your argument against each is that it "doesn't fix the entire problem".
You can draw a comparison, but that would require you to completely ignore all of my posts in this thread and make up things I'm saying.

I'm saying this would make the problem worse.


Thanks for reading my posts though.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
You can draw a comparison, but that would require you to completely ignore all of my posts in this thread and make up things I'm saying.

I'm saying this would make the problem worse.


Thanks for reading my posts though.
And I'm asking HOW would this make things worse? Or are you just a troll who has no real way to back up his claims?


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Carados

Senior Member

05-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
And I'm asking HOW would this make things worse? Or are you just a troll who has no real way to back up his claims?
You don't see how treating the symptom (queue dodging) but encouraging the problems (people who only play one champion, people who don't care about team composition, underpowered characters on a team, and so on) makes things worse?

You know. Like I posted earlier on this thread?

How about trying to fix the problems instead of the symptom?

IDEA: REMOVAL OF BLIND PICK, ADDITION OF DRAFT MODE.

It won't solve all instances of queue dodging (people will still be jerks in the chat room) but it's a better first step.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-27-2010

To which I point out that I offered several OTHER steps as well that could be implemented at the same time. Draft mode doesn't solve the reasons for queue dodging at all. Rather, it focuses on solving team imbalance (if they pick Kat, hopefully someone on your team will pick a champ with a ranged stun/silence.

Draft system does NOT fix the "someone else picked my champ" dodge reason.
Draft system does NOT fix the "my team is all DPS with no tank or caster" problem. In fact, it makes it worse if you picked first (since you can't even change).

That said, you obviously didn't read my initial post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados
You don't see how treating the symptom (queue dodging) but encouraging the problems (people who only play one champion, people who don't care about team composition, underpowered characters on a team, and so on) makes things worse?
Problems:
  • People who only play 1 champion - fixed by pre-select. Sure they'll still pick that champ, but now 2 people who want to play the same person won't match together. Hence no queue-dodge.
  • People who don't care about team composition - solved by not clicking ready, so you can argue all you want with your teammates, and the game can't start til everyone selects ready (or it will re-queue when someone who "is" ready selects the requeue option, leaving you with a minor "queue dodge" penalty that doesn't scale.
  • Underpowered characters - not fixed, this is an issue for champion balance, NOT the queue system. However, same potential usage of the "not ready/ready" system, allowing queue dodging while allowing teams greater time to try and convince the dodge-worthy to change champs.

How does my suggestion actually encourage any of that? Because it still allows the dodge? I'm working in the context of the current system, because expecting a 100% overhaul of the queue system is ridiculous. It could happen, but the players should never expect a fundamental re-design to a game mechanic without any hint of such from the developers.


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Carados

Senior Member

05-27-2010

I can tell you didn't actually read any of my posts, because you keep saying encouraging a problem is fixing it.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
I can tell you didn't actually read any of my posts, because you keep saying encouraging a problem is fixing it.
And you keep failing to provide details as to WHY it is encouraging it, when I take the time to point out why I think it isn't encouraging anything.


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Carados

Senior Member

05-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
And you keep failing to provide details as to WHY it is encouraging it, when I take the time to point out why I think it isn't encouraging anything.
It's a problem.

You "fix" it by making the problem the norm.

The problem is now gone?