Suggestion: queue dodging

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skittlzlol

Member

05-21-2010

With the Leaver Buster system introduced, the age of queue dodging sprung forth. In it, albeit other methods provoke penalty, this process has resulted in many unnecessary hardships most of us players had to endure. Allow me to lay forth an expression of deep annoyance with the workings of "queue dodging."

For those who do not know what queue dodging is, it is a practice of portrayal to suggest to the other players that one's own efforts pose a mere uselessness, often piecing together a champion with improper synergy with the team or summoner spells, ie. a Mundo with Clarity. This portrayal of uselessness, if successful, results in someone else leaving rather than the Clarity Mundo, whom all along was the one that did not want to partake in the given team. If no one decides to alt f4, the entire team is stuck with a player who is playing Mundo with Clarity, which, albeit talent surpasses composition, suggests he will either be careless for 25 minutes, or just afk the entire time. To play a game at 4v5 it's not worth it, and without the opportunity to leave and start over with a better teammate, it's not fun anymore.

On the other hand, a player can choose not to select a champion during selection, enticing the other members to alt f4 to avoid a waste of time with an afk. If the dodge is not acted upon, the team is stuck with an afk for 25 minutes.

Let me suggest a simple solution to the latter problem: upon reaching 0 seconds during champion selection, the players who have not selected a champion are automatically kicked and are considered "leave" from the queue, resulting in the usual 3 minute wait (or if the person previously dodged, 10 minutes is enacted). Seems fair enough.

But now, how does a game manage to handle the Clarity Mundo (we will continue to use this analogy to easily convey the applied queue dodger)? Sure, the Summoner's Code was created to help aid abusive play, but it cannot guarantee a protection against this form of arrogance. A form of vote kick ought to be allowed (obviously with a way of it not being abused).

More often than not, a 4v5 always results in a victory for the team with the most players, not necessarily the most talented. This is, quite frankly, unfair, because people afk, or commence actions in a way of carelessness (typically, a feeder). If a team is at a disadvantage merely on the aspect of being down an entire person, whether it's afk (obviously for a long period of time) or the idiot who got vote kicked because he was not complying with the team, there needs to be a system to protect the other players' ability to win. Such a system I do not know, maybe implementing a way where the other 4 players have a buff that increases stats by a percentage. I do not know. I simply present a rational argument against the popular queue dodging that has affected gameplay indefinitely.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Please input your thoughts. Do not flame, do not claim "it is a legitimate strategy" because, with the current structure of queuing and ingame content, it ruins most games.


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SovereignEternal

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Senior Member

05-22-2010

Just add a leave button during champ select. Much easier. I mean sure you'd probably get trolls that'll just leave every game to make peoples wait time longer, but whatever. I'd rather wait for a team I know won't bail on everyone at 10 minutes because someone died 2 times in a row.

I think ingame leavers need to have a bigger penalty deleveling sounds nice.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-22-2010

The core issues with dodging/afking/leaving currently (as I see them):

Dodging

1a) Dodging is sometimes required. Your teammates pick 3 melee carries and a ranged carry. No matter what you pick, you cannot result in a balanced team (either missing a magic damage champion or missing a tank, AND you have 3 melees, so your laning phase is weak too). Yet typically in these situations, the only player (you) willing to help make a balanced team is the one stuck dodging.

1b) The dodge penalty appears to cap at 10 minutes, which is at least better than a higher cap which encourages afk/leaving.

1c) Dodging becomes out of control every time a new champion comes out, because so many people buy it and want to play it.

1d) Dodging requires you to close the client, which in addition to the penalties means additional strain on the servers (however small it may be, it is extra workload compared to someone just leaving the select screen and afk'ing for 3 or 10 minutes).

AFKing

2a) A large factor for the AFKing is teams that are obviously lobsided but either due to the 25:00 surrender minimum or "newb teammates who won't surrender", a player is forced to play a game that typically involves hugging the tower until 3+ of their team shows up to tower dive.

2b) The surrender vote requires a double majority, which means that 2 players can force 3 players to play out a losing match.

2c) Champions who go AFK in the queue often wind up AFK in the actual game, with a random champion, and their last used spells masteries and runes, giving them further reason not to want to play.

2d) There is ZERO reason not to afk a match if you would otherwise want to leave it. You are actually punished for leaving (leaver mark), but AFKing carries no penalties.

Leavers

3a) Sure there are valid reasons to leave (power outage, work called you in immediately, girlfriend showed up in a nighty, etc), but the game has zero method to differentiate.

3b) The system in place punishes leavers without doing anything to encourage it (for valid reasons), allow you to re-queue, or compensating your teammates.

Solutions:

Dodging

  • Require players to check a ready box for the game to start. After 90 seconds, 2 new checkboxes are available as well: "Re-queue with my ready team" and "Re-queue alone". If everyone on either team who is ready selects the team re-queue, then the game is cancelled, and a re-queue organized (see below). If any player selects the re-queue alone option, a message on the champ select pops up as an FYI, and the server waits for 10 seconds (in case they cancel or the game begins and to allow time to edit your ready/queue status), and then cancels the game and organizes a re-queue.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Re-queue procedure
    All players who had not selected Ready are dumped out of the queue with a 2 minute timer. This is to prevent AFK players from repeating this over and over.
  • All players who selected a solo re-queue are put back in the queue alone.
  • All players who were part of an arranged group (pre-made) and selected a group re-queue are put back in the queue with an ELO modifier based on their current group size OR their starting queue size, whichever is lower (if a 5man have one guy afk in champ select, and re-queue 4 strong, they would be given a 4man group ELO mod. If a 4man queue up premade, and like the 5th player they get, and re-queue with him, they also are given the 4man group ELO mod.).
  • All players who were solo-queue but elected to queue as group are formed into a group and put back in the queue without any ELO modifier (unless they joined a premade, as detailed above).
  • This solves issues with AFK players in the champion select, as well as poor teamcomps (just don't click ready, and when someone decides not to wait for you, you get the minor 2 minute penalty.
  • Allow players to pre-select a champion. This champion will be auto-selected for them at the start of the game. The server will know not to match multiple players who choose the same champion to the same team. This makes all the people who want to play the week's super-popular new champion wait *longer* in the queue, but the rest of the players who just want to keep playing get *shorter* queue times and fewer dodges. Much better than the current 5-dodges-per-successful-game system.

AFKing

  • Drop the surrender timer, but impose an ip/xp penalty to the surrendering team if the option is used before the 25:00 mark. -5% per minute would mean surrenders before 5 minutes are worth 0 ip/xp, and surrenders at 15:00 are worth 50%. From an IP/XP perspective, playing til 25:00 remains the standard. Adjust the numbers as appropriate for smaller maps (ie Twisted Treeline).
  • Change the surrender vote to require only 3 votes after 25:00. The simple majority should be in control, but denying their 2 teammates ip/xp isn't fair "enough".
  • Removal of the current Leaver system (see below) will better discourage afk'ing for any other reason.

Leavers

  • Add a menu option to the game for "Abandon this game". This option actually removes your champion entirely from the game, and gives you a loss on your record. You are allowed to re-queue after a 5 minute "punishment" timer. IP/XP is awarded at the same rate as a surrender (-5% per minute below 25:00 for Summoner's Rift).
  • A player who disconnects for 5 minutes is forced to abandon the game, with a 10 minute timer (which typically won't matter for all valid reasons to suddenly lose connection for 5+ minutes).
  • A new solo player in the queue is asked if he wants to join a game in progress (displaying current tower counts, kill counters, and game timer). He is then shown the champions and summoner spells on his team, and allowed to join when ready. Players doing this are awarded a bonus 50 ip/xp, win or lose, and enter the game 2 levels below the lowest enemy champion, with 400 gold + 100 per minute the game has been going (this results in 2900 gold at the 25:00 mark, which is most definitely "weak").

Results


The new leaver system promotes abandoning a game (at some cost) over AFKing through it, since it actually allows you to get into a new game.
By encouraging a system that players actively choose to leave, the system can then replace them without worry about them coming back.
Joining a losing game as a solo player is still worth it in terms of IP due to the +50 bonus. And with how ELO works, it will only temporarily harm your rating.

Since there is now no reason to just afk through a match, except to be an ass to your teammates, that behavior should see a decline, and those who still do it become easier to isolate and report.

With surrenders available earlier, a truly non-fun lost game can be abandoned while giving the winning team full IP and XP, but not forcing them to stomp on a decidedly worse group of players for the 10 minutes left in the match.

Pre-select champions will cut down on queue dodging in one direction, and having a system in place to handle afk players will decrease it in another. Allowing players to re-queue with their random group will cut down on people who get dodged 4 times and then get matched with a team of all dps (and wind up dodging themselves).


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gcampton

Senior Member

05-24-2010

if someone goes afk at the start of a game i love it, truely... it is a blessing. Those that don't see it as that probably haven't played the game longer than a few weeks.

If you have 1 in each lane, a jungler and 1 afk. then it means you will all be level11 while the other team is having a hard time pressing level 7, all but the mid. This usually results in mid being pushed to inhibitor.

4vs5 typically can wipe out the opposition before it knows what hit them. But it does require some skill to tower hug (like actually standing at tower DUH), last hitting off tower hits (which isn't hard either) if the team of 4 does any feeding whatsoever then it's gg.

edit: I'm not trying to sound like some god at this game or anything, I've only been playing 2 months. But it really isn't that hard to last hit and tower hug, if your a squishy char that will die in 2 hits from enemy DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! buy a catalyst or something that will aid you like a giants belt.(choice of boots is where most people fail here)


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcampton View Post
if someone goes afk at the start of a game i love it, truely... it is a blessing. Those that don't see it as that probably haven't played the game longer than a few weeks.

If you have 1 in each lane, a jungler and 1 afk. then it means you will all be level11 while the other team is having a hard time pressing level 7, all but the mid. This usually results in mid being pushed to inhibitor.

4vs5 typically can wipe out the opposition before it knows what hit them. But it does require some skill to tower hug (like actually standing at tower DUH), last hitting off tower hits (which isn't hard either) if the team of 4 does any feeding whatsoever then it's gg.

edit: I'm not trying to sound like some god at this game or anything, I've only been playing 2 months. But it really isn't that hard to last hit and tower hug, if your a squishy char that will die in 2 hits from enemy DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! buy a catalyst or something that will aid you like a giants belt.(choice of boots is where most people fail here)
This can work, but there are several champs or combinations that you just can't hold out like this against.

Group 1 is champions capable of harassing you despite the tower:
Ashe
Katarina
Anivia
Ryze
Fiddlesticks
Sivir
Zilean
Mordekaiser
Janna
Karthus
Heimerdinger
Blitzcrank
Twisted Fate
Nidalee
Cho'gath
So if you've got a 2v1 against you and one of their 2 is on that list, you're in trouble. Woe for you if you're one of the more fragile champions in the game.

You then have to worry about how fast your tower dies during this, because if they can't kill you (and know it), they'll just focus on the tower. Often 10 waves and it's over for the tower if they have even 1 carry in the lane.

Finally, what if they have a jungler? That leaves you two mutually solo lanes, a 2v2 lane, and they ALSO have a jungler roaming to gank.

Yes a 4v5 can win.
Yes a 4v5 will often have level advantage.

But if the 5 player team has decent CC, levels mean nothing.
If the 5 player team has strong early game pushing, you'll be lucky to break even by the time you reach level 18.
The 5 player team will get far more total creep kills, which means more $$, which means that once THEY reach 18, they will have money and number advantages, and your only advantage will have vanished.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Question - who put a downvote on my suggestion without even bothering to post a reply?
*sigh* Internet win.


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Carados

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
Question - who put a downvote on my suggestion without even bothering to post a reply?
*sigh* Internet win.
Because the **** "Pre-Select" a champion thing has been suggested a million times and it's still a terrible idea the million and a first time.

You're treating a symptom and not the underlying problem.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Because the **** "Pre-Select" a champion thing has been suggested a million times and it's still a terrible idea the million and a first time.
Well at least that's feedback, but can you come up with another way to actually decrease the queue dodging that occurs on new-champ-day?

If not, I contend that while it may be a bad idea, it is still an improvement, and one that does not detract from the champion select process either since everyone can still change in champion select.

Also, there were *other* parts of the entire package suggested.


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Carados

Senior Member

05-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
Well at least that's feedback, but can you come up with another way to actually decrease the queue dodging that occurs on new-champ-day?
Can you propose a system which wouldn't make queuing on any other day unbearable?


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
Can you propose a system which wouldn't make queuing on any other day unbearable?
Explain how this suggestion would making queuing "unbearable"?

It simply would mean that after you select your map, you are given the champion list and select one (or, quite reasonably, there could be a "skip" option with no selection).

Then, matchmaker works as normal, but any 2 players who have selected the same champion are not matched together.

The way I see it, all this means is longer queue times for people who pick popular champions (most days, I doubt more than a +50% queue length for the most popular), and no noticeable change for people who pick the champions that show up less than every 5 matches (50 champs, 5-10 per match, so any champion at the 2.2% mark or less shouldn't change your queue time in the slightest).

In exchange, one of the main contributions to queue dodging is gone.

So. How exactly is this a detriment to the queue system Carados (or anyone else)?


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