Countering a turtling Heimer?

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Wra7h

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Having 2 players with smite in your team can really screw Heimer, but ofc other than that Smite is useless... (except for junglers ofc)


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Seiuchi

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickles View Post
No, he's better late game. His turrets can deal over 150 aoe damage a pop and his grenades can destroy turrets in a few hits. You don't want the game to last that long against heim.

To counter heim, just kill him and don't feed him. Three level three turrets aren't always going to stop a solid push. Simply having some aoe will take out those turrets too. Heimer's primary weakness is nukers. Melee dps have a hard time against him. As much as people love Jax, he's not always the best choice against heimer. Anivia and Annie can bring the hurt though.
He's worse late game because there's a lot more roaming involved, so now he can't force enemies to stay near his turrets. He's basically good at siege, turtling, and laning and that's it.


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Xienwolf

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Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wra7h View Post
Having 2 players with smite in your team can really screw Heimer, but ofc other than that Smite is useless... (except for junglers ofc)
Smite is pretty nice on champions who have a hard time last hitting, but need to build up gold. The extra 5 gold and easy distance last hit means more gold than darting in by yourself to pray you don't die.

And it can help you to quickly nab lizzie/golem while swapping lanes to bash/defend towers.


I have to agree with people saying that a turtle Heimer is doing his job wrong, unless of course his team is already losing badly and NEEDS to turtle. With the bonus attack speed for a fresh turret, it is quite nice to crawl forward laying out new ones as you go. Would be nice if his Ult would refresh the cooldown or pop any extras not already down for him so he could get more than 1 turret out in a hurry though.


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drachasor

Senior Member

05-20-2010

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Originally Posted by Seiuchi View Post
He's worse late game because there's a lot more roaming involved, so now he can't force enemies to stay near his turrets. He's basically good at siege, turtling, and laning and that's it.
He's worse mid-game. Early game he is powerful as a laner. Late Game he is powerful at repelling attacks or pushing and his turrets will be doing insane damage. Any good Heimer will drop turrets as they move forward, meaning enemies from behind or the sides will get hurt and they also cover retreat (often 2 turrets will be close enough for a given combat, if not all 3 and that's not counting retreats). He's only bad if he and his team get caught unawares, but almost everyone is bad at that. That said, his grenade can stun easily enough and his missiles are very nasty as well -- both have good AP ratios. Late Game I usually have 500+ AP on Heimer with a Void Staff, so that's nothing to laugh about. Of course, Late Game Heimer needs to be with his group to be effective, like almost anyone. To add to that, late game his team can make Heimer rather useless by constantly shifting position more than necessary. Heimer's strength is pushing and he's great at that...he's much, much worse in a disorganized team.

Mid-game though, he probably doesn't have enough AP to have really powerful turrets, so he is relatively weaker. Unless he got Mejal's and you've been feeding him (and that's easy enough to avoid). He also won't have much resistance killing ability beyond Sorc Shoes, so armored targets are tougher for him to deal with. At least, this is my experience playing him. That said, running into 3 turrets and just trying to hit heimer is a good way to die unless you have a few friends who pack a lot of damage.

Anyhow, killing his turrets is a good way to make him less effective, and it is best to do this by tossing out a few AoEs (and a good Heimer will have turrets spaced so that most AoE's can't hit more than one). Best way to handle Heimer is just to gank him repeatedly. If he is defending a place solo, then have 2-3 people who have some stuns gank him.


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Tansen

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Have the ever present Morde shred his turrets. A good Morde will not even blink as he pushes right thru them.


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Sageless

Member

05-20-2010

This is pretty much spot on. What items do you get?

I usually start off with Chalice and Sorc boots, and then the rest of my items are dependent on the team i'm playing against and my own team.



Quote:
Originally Posted by drachasor View Post
He's worse mid-game. Early game he is powerful as a laner. Late Game he is powerful at repelling attacks or pushing and his turrets will be doing insane damage. Any good Heimer will drop turrets as they move forward, meaning enemies from behind or the sides will get hurt and they also cover retreat (often 2 turrets will be close enough for a given combat, if not all 3 and that's not counting retreats). He's only bad if he and his team get caught unawares, but almost everyone is bad at that. That said, his grenade can stun easily enough and his missiles are very nasty as well -- both have good AP ratios. Late Game I usually have 500+ AP on Heimer with a Void Staff, so that's nothing to laugh about. Of course, Late Game Heimer needs to be with his group to be effective, like almost anyone. To add to that, late game his team can make Heimer rather useless by constantly shifting position more than necessary. Heimer's strength is pushing and he's great at that...he's much, much worse in a disorganized team.

Mid-game though, he probably doesn't have enough AP to have really powerful turrets, so he is relatively weaker. Unless he got Mejal's and you've been feeding him (and that's easy enough to avoid). He also won't have much resistance killing ability beyond Sorc Shoes, so armored targets are tougher for him to deal with. At least, this is my experience playing him. That said, running into 3 turrets and just trying to hit heimer is a good way to die unless you have a few friends who pack a lot of damage.

Anyhow, killing his turrets is a good way to make him less effective, and it is best to do this by tossing out a few AoEs (and a good Heimer will have turrets spaced so that most AoE's can't hit more than one). Best way to handle Heimer is just to gank him repeatedly. If he is defending a place solo, then have 2-3 people who have some stuns gank him.


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Prosecutor Godot

Senior Member

05-20-2010

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Originally Posted by Tansen View Post
Have the ever present Morde shred his turrets. A good Morde will not even blink as he pushes right thru them.
That's incorrect.

Turrets > Morde.

And with enough spacing he can't AoE them down.

Good Heimers build a lot of AP and his Turrets hurt like hell.


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MrTyx

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Recruiter

05-20-2010

Poppy does really well. If someone say, Blitzcrank, comes to help Heim (because pull + turrets = most people dead), then Poppy just ults Blitz and destroys Heim.


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drachasor

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageless View Post
This is pretty much spot on. What items do you get?

I usually start off with Chalice and Sorc boots, and then the rest of my items are dependent on the team i'm playing against and my own team.
I used to do something like that, then I decided Chalice was just keeping me down too much (didn't like spending the money on it). First item I go for is a Rod of Ages (which I complete during the laning phase), then I grab Tear of the Goddess. Then I grab Sorc Boots (it does make me a little slow for a while, but Heimer gets money so fast it isn't that bad), then turn the Tear into an Archangel Staff. I find the extra health from RoA helps a lot and the mana works well with the Staff.

I rarely have mana trouble with such a large pool. I also grab teleport so I can move around easily. Occasionally I grab the Golem buff (caps my CDs).

After those 3 items, I get a Void Staff if the enemy has magic resist that looks troublesome, otherwise I usually go for Zonya's.


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drachasor

Senior Member

05-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosecutor Godot View Post
That's incorrect.

Turrets > Morde.

And with enough spacing he can't AoE them down.

Good Heimers build a lot of AP and his Turrets hurt like hell.
Agreed. A had trouble the first time I encountered Mord. After that you just put your turrets away from minions (sides work) and he has to decide whether to go for the turrets or the minions. Grenades and Missiles can keep his shield down to low levels (usually I just grab 1 rank of Grenades since missiles are most often easier to hit people with).