Bloodthirster vs. Thornmail

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All Beef Wiener

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Junior Member

08-31-2011

Just Tested. 2 Ashe's, 0 runes, 0 masteries.
Both Level 18.
One had a bloodthirster (3000g) fully charged.
The other had a thornmail (2000g).
In an auto attack fight the one with thornmail ended with about 250 health left while the bloodthirster Ashe lost.
Why does a 3000g DPS item lose to a 2000g tank item?
I'm sure this has been done before and i'm sure its been posted before, but now I just want to know how this is balanced.


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AntiTcb

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Senior Member

08-31-2011

Because Thornmail reflects based on damage before Armor and Lifesteal gives healing based on damage after Armor.


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NBot

Senior Member

08-31-2011

well the thornmail does damage based on AD not actual damage done and the life steal is based on actual damage done, so the 100 armor made the thornmail ashe win, also you can stack AD and lifesteal to make it even stronger while the thornmail is unique

edit: ninja'd


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All Beef Wiener

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Junior Member

08-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBot View Post
well the thornmail does damage based on AD not actual damage done and the life steal is based on actual damage done, so the 100 armor made the thornmail ashe win, also you can stack AD and lifesteal to make it even stronger while the thornmail is unique

edit: ninja'd
Even though Thornmail is unique, saying it doesn't get stronger would be false. You don't need more than one because it scales with how strong your enemy is, not how strong you are. So as they get better, so does thornmail. My main problem is how its only 2000g, yet say you had a Thornmail and an infinity edge, where the other person had a bloodthirster and infinity edge. The person with Thornmail would win.


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NBot

Senior Member

08-31-2011

also i did some looking up and it was stupid of me to say get more AD /faceplam.
but getting more lifesteal(maybe an executioners blade) and MR will help a lot, especially with some hp so you arent a glass cannon and you get instagibbed


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Eddiot

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Last whisper+BT+BV == Win


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HotHit

Senior Member

09-01-2011

The cheaper defensive item wins because it doesn't help you push the game towards victory directly. Offensive items like bloodthirster also don't need to think much about their use, does your champion benefit from this item more than other items such as infinity edge? Defensive items need to look at what the enemy is doing, they need to counter the enemy to be useful. A Banshee's Veil does great against Singed, but Kog'maw is just going to laugh at you for buying one.

Logic beats mindless power every time.


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Reikken

Senior Member

09-01-2011

because your thornmail is useless when you're being nuked down by Brand

It's very strong when all of the damage you take is from AD autoattacks, but AP nukes don't care about it, and even autoattackers that do magic damage like Jax and Kog'Maw don't care about it. Also vs AD skills like Lee Sin, Pantheon, Garen, etc. the passive is useless.

It's a specific counter item. Situationally very useful. But indeed only situationally.
Bloodthirster (on Ashe), however, is always useful. AD will make you do more damage and lifesteal for more no matter who you are attacking.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

09-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFalco View Post
Even though Thornmail is unique, saying it doesn't get stronger would be false. You don't need more than one because it scales with how strong your enemy is, not how strong you are. So as they get better, so does thornmail. My main problem is how its only 2000g, yet say you had a Thornmail and an infinity edge, where the other person had a bloodthirster and infinity edge. The person with Thornmail would win.
It also scales better with a higher armor % value, if you have 300 Armor you're returning 30% damage and taking 25%. They'd need 120% Lifesteal to heal back the automatic damage, not accounting for any skills shot back and forth or the target fighting back.