Ezreal : Zhonnya's ring vs Lichabane

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Weltallgaia

Member

05-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironfungus View Post
So regardless if you auto attack physically, it will still do some amazing damage. Right?
Yep, but if you can sneak in that auto attack damage it really ramps up your dps. Its kinda funny to cut someone's health in half with your ult, auto attack then E past them auto attack again. Its usually enough to kill any squishy. I had 700 ap as ez in a long game recently and was kill super minions in under 4 seconds due to lich bane


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nihil Sine Nefas

Senior Member

05-19-2010

The downside to Lichbane procs is that the extra damage is physical and since you probably didn't build for armor penetration, the extra damage will actually be at least 40% less than the what you were expecting. But it does add a good amount of burst to your spell combos. I think people also underestimate just how fast a caster with a spammable spell can take down a tower with Lichbane. A fed caster with 500 AP can easily take down a tower in less than 10 seconds, barely slower than many DPS.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS186afbf367d955

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Don't get a lichbane on Fiddlesticks, there will be always a better item. With fiddlesticks once you used your ulti into your enemies you want to fear, then silence them ASAP. You don't have the time to auto attack between your spells. Then you have to follow them, you don't want to stop moving every time you auto attack, really don't get it on fiddlesticks there are tons of better items (especially if the game is that long you'll have to buy several survivability items if you don't wanna be insta nuked when you come with your ulti).

SoopaTomato, Weltallgaia, Nihil Sine Nefas : Sure having both is nice, having 500 or even 700 AP is nice too but i'm talking about reality not about the one game we have every ten years. Most of the game are almost over after 30min, I mean a team took a strong advantage over the other at this point. That's why I want to have the build that deal the most dmg quite soon.

The thing is that I feel like we're over estimating the lich bane since we doesn't take in account the armor of the enemies. And since you're playing an AP Ezreal it's just stupid to take some armor penetration (like Nihil said).

About taking down tower faster the main problem is that you have to use your Q on minions to get your attack speed buff, but when you do that lich ban procs on minions, not on your next auto attack.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tonnes of Dmg

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Lich Bane makes Mystic Shot not suck.

When you fire Mystic Shot, it procs Lich Bane (before it hits). If the Mystic Shot lands, it'll use the Lich Bane buff so you're basically getting an extra 300 damage nuke on a 3-4 second cooldown (with some CDR anyway).

I like personally like going:

- Sapphire Crystal and some Potions
- Boots of Speed and Sheen
- (Mejai's Soulstealer if you are doing well)
- Tear of the Goddess
- Lich Bane
- Archangel's Staff

And that's the main build for me. After that, I choose other items depending on the situation. I usually go for Rylai's or Zhonya's after that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CaptHarlock

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epok2 View Post
Not a 1:1 AP scaling, since most of the enemies will have some armor it's like a 0.5AP scaling, that's pretty bad actually.

Well you don't do close to no damage you just do 50% of the dmg your doing with a lich bane. Anyway even with that most of the dmg you'll do come from your R and your W. By the way the W is super easy to hit in teamfight because people have to stop to move when they auto attack or when they use abilities...
You can say the same about magic resist for any of his other abilities. "Not a X:Y AP scaling, since most of the enemies will have some magic resist it's like a 'Z' AP scaling, that's pretty bad actually". What this does is diversify his damage output so that your enemies can't just stack magic resist and think they'll be fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Epok2 View Post
...2s immunity from the ring is also very good to be honest because they will stop to focus you usually. At the time you get the lich bane tower can be killed in several seconds anyway because you'll play in team.

The point I want to highlight is that if anymore than one/two people are stacking armor OR if you hit more than 2 people with your ult it's way better to get the zhonnya instead of the lich bane.
2s of immunity is very good, but so is the movement speed increase from lichbane. It allows you to position yourself easier and get hits off more reliably than a zhonnya's.

If you only focus on getting zhonnya's, you don't get sheen which severely gimps your mid-game. Thus, making it harder to farm up the zhonnya's. I'm not saying zhonnya's is a bad item or anything, but not getting lichbane is just not a good idea


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fragglerock

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Personally, I think sheen is very meh. Everyone's overwhelming agreement of how good this item is, is a great example of forum group-think, imho.

Why sheen is good: the mana, and builds into LB.

I'm not saying I get LB every time, in fact most times I end up going for Z-ring, but LB is in no way 'bad'.

Yes, the AP is lower, but, in exchange you get a great boost to your Q, which for actual sustained dps does more for you than the Z-ring, some MR, some MS, some mana, and it continues to scale if the game goes longer.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS186afbf367d955

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptHarlock View Post
You can say the same about magic resist for any of his other abilities. "Not a X:Y AP scaling, since most of the enemies will have some magic resist it's like a 'Z' AP scaling, that's pretty bad actually". What this does is diversify his damage output so that your enemies can't just stack magic resist and think they'll be fine.
There is a huge difference : If no one is stacking armor or MR your AP ratios will stay good on your magic abilities but your Q dmg output WILL inevitably be cut by half. Then if your opponents start stacking some MR or Armor you'll do your best to lower their MR the most you can while you WON'T be doing anything to lower their armor. So your Q dmg output will drop faster than your magic dmg ever will.

Unless you buy some armor pen but it would be a terrible mistake on a AP ez.

Quote:
2s of immunity is very good, but so is the movement speed increase from lichbane. It allows you to position yourself easier and get hits off more reliably than a zhonnya's.
Yeah sure, all I wanted to say is that both items give quite the same survivability.

[QUOTE]
If you only focus on getting zhonnya's, you don't get sheen which severely gimps your mid-game. Thus, making it harder to farm up the zhonnya's. I'm not saying zhonnya's is a bad item or anything, but not getting lichbane is just not a good idea[/QUOTE

You didn't read my first post :
"... I still think sheen is a good item early game so I considered I sold it before buying the zhonny's ring. The build with a lich bane is a little more expansive because I've taken in account the gold lost when selling sheen"
You lose 300g for selling sheen, I don''t think this is that big.

Again if you hit anymore than two targets either with your R or W then the zhonnya's ring build is better than the lich bane build. When I started playing Lol the game was a lot about 1v1 fights even during late game phase but now (270W, 200L) the game is quickly all about 5v5 battles with everyone packed behind their tank (and this is another problem of Q, it often hits the tank with 300 Armor and 4k HP).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fragglerock

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epok2 View Post
Again if you hit anymore than two targets either with your R or W then the zhonnya's ring build is better than the lich bane build. When I started playing Lol the game was a lot about 1v1 fights even during late game phase but now (270W, 200L) the game is quickly all about 5v5 battles with everyone packed behind their tank (and this is another problem of Q, it often hits the tank with 300 Armor and 4k HP).
Couple things to note:

You will be casting Q on every cooldown for the CDR it gives. Having it do another 100-300 damage is still damage done, even if it is to a tank, and it wont always be to a tank. You aren't relying on Q to be your primary damage, but its not ignorable, either. Besides that, it helps you a great deal in farming.

Also, you can't base your arguments on tanks having 4k HP and 300 armor. If LB is your 5th item, maybe. But debating 12k gold games is silly. Few games aren't over by then. If they aren't, you're doing it wrong. My final build, as AP, is typically around ~7k worth of items, with some money in the bank I haven't had a chance to spend yet.. So what you need to ask yourself, is what can you get for 7k that will do the most for your game. And this can vary from game to game. Again, not saying that LB is better... they're probably equal. Am I just a healbot? Hows my survivability? Are they stacking MR or Armor? If I'm being focused and dropped every fight, perhaps the Z-Ring is better for the active ability. Does it look like it's going to be a long game? Do I need to be a more effective pusher, or does my team have enough of that already?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kinney

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironfungus View Post
Hey guys, just had a quick question. Been rocking some Fiddlesticks lately, and I was wondering about the Lich Bane. It says "100% Chance when an ability is used that your next physical attack deals an additional 100% of your Ability Power in damage." But Fiddlesticks doesn't use physical damage - at all.

So wouldn't this be a poor choice of an item?
Lichbane is pretty much a niche item as far as casters are concerned, as most rarely auto-attack.

I'd say the only characters you really should be building it on are Ezreal, Nidalee, Kassadin, Evelynn, and maybe as a non-priority item on Kennen. Some AP builds for Corki, Shaco, and Poppy use it, too, but those are pretty niche. I've seen some Akali players use it as well, but a lot of people think she's better off building Sheen into Triforce instead.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kinney

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityFlow View Post
Lich Bane makes Mystic Shot not suck.

When you fire Mystic Shot, it procs Lich Bane (before it hits). If the Mystic Shot lands, it'll use the Lich Bane buff so you're basically getting an extra 300 damage nuke on a 3-4 second cooldown (with some CDR anyway).

I like personally like going:

- Sapphire Crystal and some Potions
- Boots of Speed and Sheen
- (Mejai's Soulstealer if you are doing well)
- Tear of the Goddess
- Lich Bane
- Archangel's Staff

And that's the main build for me. After that, I choose other items depending on the situation. I usually go for Rylai's or Zhonya's after that.
That's pretty much what I do, although I start with Doran's Ring and sell it when I get Tear.


12