Some Twisted Fate tips, please ;)?

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Theorycrafter

Senior Member

05-19-2010

I read a few guides, yet I'm not sure what I'm missing in my fate playstyle.
I level W and E, skipping Q due to the fact that its simply relatively useless.
I go Boots->*boots dependent on enemy lineup* with a duran's blade + hp pot early.
After that I try to rush Trinity Force, followed by Sword of the Divine and Executioner's Blade and Phantom Dancer.
Still, my K/D scores are a bit average and I don't get the success behind the mass XX/0 kill Fates. I got the skill in getting gold cards, yet my firepower doesn't really match.
Additionally, before level 6, I don't know how to use the color cards efficiently to net a potential kill - I don't have issues with netting the right color, but I'm just not sure when to use which one.
After 6 I generally got issues with survival and I'm trying to net kills attacking from behind with mixed success(usually a kill, but teammates run back to base, leaving me to die)

As such,I ask - can you give me some Fate tips? Thanks


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Crannicus

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Senior Member

05-19-2010

Your first and most noticable problem is lack of damage output. You're getting up a strong AS, but you also need to add AD into the mix to make it truly worthwhile, otherwise you're just banking on your Stacked Deck hits.

The card you want to pull earlier on in the game is the red card. It deals ramped damage in comparison to the gold card, which makes it more effective early on for the harrass. You pull the gold card when you have Destiny and can drop in and gank quickly.


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Theorycrafter

Senior Member

05-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crannicus View Post
Your first and most noticable problem is lack of damage output. You're getting up a strong AS, but you also need to add AD into the mix to make it truly worthwhile, otherwise you're just banking on your Stacked Deck hits.

The card you want to pull earlier on in the game is the red card. It deals ramped damage in comparison to the gold card, which makes it more effective early on for the harrass. You pull the gold card when you have Destiny and can drop in and gank quickly.
What about blue ones?
What AD items you suggest? Madred's Bloodrazor perhaps?


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Lord Gorthax

Senior Member

05-19-2010

I wouldnt get Trinity force, if your gonna build something off of sheen, then make it a lich bane. Good move on sword of the divine, but id get that right after zerk's greaves. If your doing really well in your lane (whether be mid or not) If your loaded on gold, thx to your passive (which still needs reworked) id get a B.F. sword right off the bat, the extra damage from Stacked seck/Sword of the divine, will make enemies cower in fear of being ganked, every time you pop Destiny. I go for stinger/Nashor's Tooth after Divine if i lack Funds. I try to make a build thats all AD, AP, and AS. combine that with supierior gold carding and youll be making ppl rage quit in no time! Personal best: 27-4-10 Good luck!
As for tips: Gold card will make ppl fear you. Wild cards is nice, but stacked deck and pick a card are your bread and butter. Try to coordinate with teamamtes to set up ganking lane. If an enemy get away with miniscule HP, make him run with wild cards then pop destinies gate right in front of em'. Snatching you a kill, without losing HP from tower diving. Summoner spells should be: Flash/ghost or Heal. When Using gate, get a gold card ready for them when you pop up. In my build, i stay away from blue cards and go all Red and Gold


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Bitterz

Senior Member

05-19-2010

Gah, all these TF's running around with pure attack speed are doing it wrong. Listen. Between Stacked Deck, Last Whisper, and MAYBE, if you choose to go that route, Berserker Greaves, you don't need to stack any more attack speed. Get some damage! The difference between 1.7 attack speed and 2.5 is much, much less significant than the difference between critting for 300-400 and 700-800.

Build TF like a melee carry:
1. Greaves (unless you're not down with AS shoes)
2. Last Whisper (armor pen is king for physical dps)
3. Bloodthirster OR Infinity Edge. I prefer BT

Sword of the Divine is an awesome, SITUATIONAL item. You get it for the active 6 seconds of dodge immunity.

Let's look at it like this:

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Last Whisper: 20 extra damage (not counting Armor Pen!) EVERY attack.

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Bloodthirster: 60-100 extra damage (not counting life steal!) EVERY attack

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Infinity Edge: 80 extra damage (not counting extra crit damage!) EVERY attack

I promise. Try it. You will not be disappointed.


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Queue

Member

05-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitterz View Post

Sword of the Divine is an awesome, SITUATIONAL item. You get it for the active 6 seconds of dodge immunity.

Let's look at it like this:

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Last Whisper: 20 extra damage (not counting Armor Pen!) EVERY attack.

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Bloodthirster: 60-100 extra damage (not counting life steal!) EVERY attack

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Infinity Edge: 80 extra damage (not counting extra crit damage!) EVERY attack

I promise. Try it. You will not be disappointed.
It's bonus may have a situational aspect, but it's a situation that you will run into in a majority of your games. With the amount of people stacking dodge runes as yellows ( I know I am) and the typically constant presence of Sivir and Jax, it's an item that you should probably end up getting most games. Since your cards can get dodged, missing a stun during a teamfight or gank can swing the fight at times; other peoples stuns don't have this problem typically, as they count as spells (Taric, Sion, Ryze, Morgana, Alistar, etc). SotD helps mitigate this disadvantage.

On top of that, the stacking with stacked deck makes it a huge burst DPS item. Leading with a sword/deck proc is often enough to make people turn tail and rethink coming after you; balanced DPS, though just as or more effective, isn't as threatening psychologically.

Your comparison to Last Whisper is a fair one. They will do similar average damage at a similar price point, with Last whisper coming out on top vs targets as they gain armor later in the game. Against low armor targets and earlier in the game, SotD gains the advantage with it's burst. The comparisons with Bloodthirster and IE are not. Of course they do better damage; they run 3200 and 4080 respectively, to the 2175 of SotD.


tl;dr ... I typically start with Dorans Blade/Shield, then go to SotD, Bloodrazer, Frozen Hammer, Bloodthirster, and a final item of 'whatever the hell I might need'. I build boots before/during SotD, but never get 'zerkers. The .2 attack speed you get is not worth the damage reduction and bonuses of tabi(dodge) or Merc(CC reduction). If you aren't getting Merc or Tabi every game, you better have swiftness boots, otherwise you're doing it wrong.


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Bitterz

Senior Member

05-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queue View Post
Your comparison to Last Whisper is a fair one. They will do similar average damage at a similar price point, with Last whisper coming out on top vs targets as they gain armor later in the game. Against low armor targets and earlier in the game, SotD gains the advantage with it's burst. The comparisons with Bloodthirster and IE are not. Of course they do better damage; they run 3200 and 4080 respectively, to the 2175 of SotD.
Then let's make one more comparison:

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. BF Sword: 50 extra damage every attack.

I will never, ever deny that SotD is a great item. I will wholeheartedly disagree with anyone who wants to build it up to be some must have item for the aspiring TF. It's proc is mediocre. It's active is great.

When it comes to laning, applying pressure, and pursuing ganks, there are much better items to aim for than Sword of the Divine.

Just try this for me one time:

1.) Boots
2.) Last Whisper
3.) BF Sword >> BT or IE

Just try it and see how much more pressure you're able to put out when every attack, not just every 3rd or 4th one, makes your enemies reconsider their positioning.


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Queue

Member

05-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitterz View Post


Just try this for me one time:

1.) Boots
2.) Last Whisper
3.) BF Sword >> BT or IE

Just try it and see how much more pressure you're able to put out when every attack, not just every 3rd or 4th one, makes your enemies reconsider their positioning.
I'm not saying you aren't making a good point, but my point is Last Whisper and SotD are very close in price and very close in effectiveness depending on the target. Why not take boots, SotD, and BF sword?

I agree that TF needs damage to be purely effective; my problems isn't with that. It's the choice of a pure AS item that I'll defend. I think, for TF, that SotD is the best option unless you know you are going to run into some armor loving characters like Rammus, Malphite, etc.


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Bitterz

Senior Member

05-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queue View Post
I'm not saying you aren't making a good point, but my point is Last Whisper and SotD are very close in price and very close in effectiveness depending on the target. Why not take boots, SotD, and BF sword?

I agree that TF needs damage to be purely effective; my problems isn't with that. It's the choice of a pure AS item that I'll defend. I think, for TF, that SotD is the best option unless you know you are going to run into some armor loving characters like Rammus, Malphite, etc.
Every champ in the game has some amount of passive armor. In the case of physical DPS, which is the role TF is filling these days, getting through that armor will always yield more damage than just piling on more damage items.

That said, SotD's proc is a magic effect, so armor doesn't come into play there... Ultimately I guess what you're presenting is a "different strokes for different folks" scenario. Before selling your soul to the SotD crowd, tho, at least try grab'n LW early. Keep track of those little numbers that pop up when you smack someone with a few cards, and then make your judgment on which item you prefer.


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Theorycrafter

Senior Member

05-19-2010

How am I meant to survive with Last Whisper, farm up a 1850 fury and SotD without dying? Doesn't that give me like, 0 hp/armor/magic resistance?


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