Are we balancing the extreme?

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Kevoun

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Senior Member

09-14-2009

When the game comes out it seems like it will take awhile to have 3 full pages of tweaked tier 3 rune setups. In fact, this would be the most extreme case IMO, because I don't think it will be very easy to obtain a full page of one type of rune. Heck, it took me several hours to get rune pages set up even with a 'free rune' button.

My question is this: are we testing balance for too extreme of cases? I know that the highest level of play will be using tier 3 set ups, and it's very important to have this level balanced (discussion of this in another topic). However, initial release is going to be an important stage where people will be deciding whether they like the game or not, and everyone is going to be using crappy, thrown together tier 1 pages (pros and newbs alike).

I'm suggesting that maybe we should spend some more time playing with 'lowball' rune pages and balancing champions for their base worth. I'm not suggesting that we remove any focus from balancing tweaked pages, but add focus on balancing the un-tweaked versions as well.

What do you guys think? Anyone want to set up some scrims to play champs with clean rune pages and/or limited mastery points?

How easy will it be or how long will it take to get the type of tier 3 rune pages we've been using?


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PIMP

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Recruiter

09-14-2009

Sure, having great rune setups help. With that said, 80% of the people I play with own with random, slapped together rune pages. Even most of the Riot staff have random, ****ty rune pages. In the end, I don't think the balance is skewed.


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gutter

Senior Member

09-14-2009

The free runes have created an interesting dynamic where everyone feels the need to have every single one of their runes be exactly the same.

The situation at release will likely be that people will actually accept that they use more than one stat and will fill their pages with all "relevant" runes instead of all the same kind which I have a feeling is how it's supposed to be. And that's what I feel it should be balanced around.

That all said, I don't know how much rune pages factor in to actual champion balance. I figured that the runes were kind of balanced around themselves (since everyone has access to them) and the champions were kind of a separate balance pool.


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HereticalSaint

Senior Member

09-14-2009

I'm not a fan of the whole, "stack one stat till you are blue in the face!", my main page has armor pen, crit dmg, dodge, AP per level, magic resist per level and up until I started choosing random heroes that I never played before I only went negative 5-6 out of my first 60 games. Not trying to say I'm gosu, more that stacking all of "XXX" rune definitely isn't the only viable strat.


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Irony

Senior Member

09-14-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereticalSaint View Post
I'm not a fan of the whole, "stack one stat till you are blue in the face!", my main page has armor pen, crit dmg, dodge, AP per level, magic resist per level and up until I started choosing random heroes that I never played before I only went negative 5-6 out of my first 60 games. Not trying to say I'm gosu, more that stacking all of "XXX" rune definitely isn't the only viable strat.
Its not
And because its going to be not only harder to obtain the runes when the game goes live, but harder to level and get more rune slots, "balancing" isn't necessary seeing that only the best and patient will be able to have full access to a complete rune page


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Kogue

Senior Member

09-14-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by gutter View Post
The free runes have created an interesting dynamic where everyone feels the need to have every single one of their runes be exactly the same.

The situation at release will likely be that people will actually accept that they use more than one stat and will fill their pages with all "relevant" runes instead of all the same kind which I have a feeling is how it's supposed to be. And that's what I feel it should be balanced around.

That all said, I don't know how much rune pages factor in to actual champion balance. I figured that the runes were kind of balanced around themselves (since everyone has access to them) and the champions were kind of a separate balance pool.

Can't Say I agree with this. Most Runes are lost in value as the primary section. Especially with Champions such as Mundo and Tyr. You can't really want to use those blues for skill abilities. I find Crit is much more useful as a blue even when even multiple small amount of crit from that side can equal 2% and upwards.


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gutter

Senior Member

09-14-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogue View Post
Can't Say I agree with this. Most Runes are lost in value as the primary section. Especially with Champions such as Mundo and Tyr. You can't really want to use those blues for skill abilities. I find Crit is much more useful as a blue even when even multiple small amount of crit from that side can equal 2% and upwards.
Actually, if I were to pick a type of rune that wasn't always useful as a primary, I'd go with the Marks (red) and not blue. Yellow (seals) are always useful for Health and Ability Power seems more broadly applicable to all champions than does +Damage. And of course if you don't want to go with AP you can always just get Cooldown Reduction which is similarly useful. Casters usually don't give a **** about any sort of physical damage though so red can be lost.

Note that I'm not necessarily saying that it'll always be optimal to have primary runes in every slot, but that at release hopefully people will learn that they don't actually need all of their runes to be exactly the same. Even if you're going to use secondary runes, you don't need all +Damage or +Crit, you can mix it up a bit.


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Oriental Teabag

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Senior Member

03-24-2013

If you've ever tried playing with no runes, it's actually pretty difficult to CS. This is especially the case if you've played with runes for a while, and are accustomed to a certain amount of starting power


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Oriental Teabag

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Senior Member

03-24-2013

Why the downvotes?


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GunzRX

Senior Member

03-24-2013

This guy just necrod a four year old thread, LOL.