What the new penetration means in a nutshell

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Play

Senior Member

05-16-2010

1) Tanks become less tanky

2) Burst damage champions can't take out squishies with their nukes

3) Heal stacking becomes mandatory



And any of these are good how?

I seriously feel Riot is in the wrong here. Please help raise awareness for this unnecessary change so that we can help convince him that, on this issue, the community really does know what's best.


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Urobolus

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Senior Member

05-16-2010

Tryndamere & Rammus swap places.


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Ursalgodon

Senior Member

05-16-2010

I think it's a good change. Let me explain...

1) Penetration is now worse against non-tanks.
2) A balanced team is comprised of mostly non-tanks.
3) Buying penetration will now be less effective against more targets.
4) Less people will buy penetration, unless their strategy is to take out the tank first.
5) Taking out the tank first is still a bad idea.

Therefore, stacking armor and magic resistance on only one or two designated tanks will go mostly uncountered. By nerfing penetration against non-tanks, tanks have to worry less about penetration in general.

On the other hand, take the team comp of Mundo, Mordekaiser, Sion, Shen, and Taric, all stacking sunfire capes. Now, this composition is very strong, especially in blind pick. But after the patch, penetration will be a very strong counter.

In summary, as long as you don't premake an entire team of tanks, penetration is not a problem.


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JonnyThinkChamp

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Senior Member

05-16-2010

Nukers can no longer kill someone. Thats just about all it means. Also, Pantheon drops back to ****ing useless tier, since he can't stack ArPen runes for a good early game.


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Play

Senior Member

05-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursalgodon View Post
I think it's a good change. Let me explain...

1) Penetration is now worse against non-tanks.
2) A balanced team is comprised of mostly non-tanks.
3) Buying penetration will now be less effective against more targets.
4) Less people will buy penetration, unless their strategy is to take out the tank first.
5) Taking out the tank first is still a bad idea.

Therefore, stacking armor and magic resistance on only one or two designated tanks will go mostly uncountered. By nerfing penetration against non-tanks, tanks have to worry less about penetration in general.

On the other hand, take the team comp of Mundo, Mordekaiser, Sion, Shen, and Taric, all stacking sunfire capes. Now, this composition is very strong, especially in blind pick. But after the patch, penetration will be a very strong counter.

In summary, as long as you don't premake an entire team of tanks, penetration is not a problem.
I think that all this sounds good in theory, but it will most likely not play out as described here.

A big issue I think is being overlooked is the fact that casters and burst damage champions who rely on magic damage nukes will no longer be able to fulfill their job of taking out squishy carries.

In my opinion, there was no reason to apply the same change to magic pen. as they made to armor pen., as casters rarely focus their nukes on tanks to begin with. Physical dps champions, however, have unlimited autoattacks, and thus don't lose much when focusing a tank other than the opportunity to focus squishies.

I would also like to know for what reason Riot has decided that they should discourage the use of armor and magic penetration?


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Feel a Fear

Senior Member

05-16-2010

There's already a huge thread w/ red posts in it discussing the penetration changes, fyi.


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Play

Senior Member

05-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feel a Fear View Post
There's already a huge thread w/ red posts in it discussing the penetration changes, fyi.
I'm trying to emphasize the total significance of the change based on three main points, with the knowledge that the community has already discussed the topic enough to come to these three conclusions. This topic is not supposed to be synonymous with asking a question such as "should I switch my rune page now", "will you guys be buffing rammus in response", or "what is the math behind the new penetration system".


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TheFurries

Member

05-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursalgodon View Post
I think it's a good change. Let me explain...


3) Buying penetration will now be less effective against more targets.
4) Less people will buy penetration, unless their strategy is to take out the tank first.
It would be nice if it really works out like this, but in reality this just means a straight nerf to tanks. Why?
1) items with pen already gives stats that are useful for the char (atk spd, AP, etc.). so the itemization isn't a trade-off between dealing more dmg to squishies or tanks since those items are often part of a char's core build.
2) specifically concerning armor pen, pretty much all the chars have over 80 BASE armor at lv 18. so if the new pen is balanced at 100 armor, armor pen will only be slightly less effective against squishies while tremendously powerful against tanks that stack armor (rammus, malphite).


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finalformeskimo

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Senior Member

05-16-2010

Burst champs will still be able to take out squishes just fine, you just wont be able to do it with just one burst from rhyze ult. the 50% reduction in armor will add up for AD builds still, and mag pen still becomes good at fairlly average MR. Just getting more AP adds more damage anyway, just slightly less if your AP ratio for an ability isn't 1:1. So just stack more AP to make up for it, or reduce your CD more. Its going to make a difference, but I think its for the better.