My jungle shaco is bad :(

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Calcabrina

Senior Member

05-15-2010

So I'm bored of TF. And I hate fiddles. So I'm trying Shaco. After a few attempts at laning I just wind up feeding. It seems way more efficient to just jungle for early levels. That's where the problems start.
I try to get longsword first and a health pot, then take down the lizard. I usually try a 4 JitB cluster. I dunno if my placement is off or what, but the lizards never target the boxes and just come after me, which drops my HP fast. I usually get the kills, but I have to use Smite and wind up low on HP afterward. Then with my HP that low and Smite gone, it's hard to get the last bit of xp to get level 2 and deceive without leeching off a lane. And even when I do get that xp, I'm never strong enough to get first blood. It's all downhill from there- not enough xp and damage to take more jungle camps or gank means I fall behind fast and wind up wandering around aimlessly getting random creep kills, not progressing at all.
I feel like the whole jungle thing needs to start perfectly, that the lizard -> FB thing is what propels it, allowing you to rush the Razors and take more camps. But my starts never manage to pull that off. I'm only summoner 12- are the runes and masteries what ensures success? Should I forget about jungling until I'm maxed at 30 with T3 runes? It seems silly and I don't want to give up on Shaco, but if that's what it takes I don't see any other option.
Also, on the off chance that I do figure this out, what level can Shaco solo the dragon? I've done it pretty easily at 10, but I think it requires the clone, so at least 6?


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True Bandito

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Senior Member

05-15-2010

Lemme try to help you as I do lvl 1 jungling with Shaco as well.

I use Doran's Ring (more initial HP and mana regen for you and damage to JiTB) and HP pot in the beginning. I plant 5 JiTB (from 0:40 to 2:40) and manage to kill Golem very fast (like in 3 seconds) and spend another JiTB to finish off the two small minions. Since I maxed the mastery that gives you 5% more experience, I manage to reach level 2 at Golem, and thanks to level up, my health will be restored by some amount and will usually be around 80% or more. I don't even need to use the HP pot at Golem.

Instead of Smite, I pick Ignite. Not only it can deal damage, it is very useful against enemy champions later on. (Smite pretty much tells the enemy team that you will do jungling at level one so they will do their best to foil your plans--Ignite is better at concealing your motive) If you picked the Improved Ignite mastery, you will gain additional 10 AP for your JiTBs after you use you Ignite on the big minions like Golem or Lizard. That 10 AP is very noticeable against jungle creeps.

At level 6 you can solo the Dragon easily with you clone, Ignite and JiTBs.

Hope it helps.


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Calcabrina

Senior Member

05-15-2010

You do Golem first? I thought lizard would be better for first blood, as it increases AD?
Also, I considered a Doran's item, but they don't build into anything, while long sword builds to the razors. Do you have problems with gold? What early items do you buy? Any potions?


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TheHegemuffin

Member

05-15-2010

Personally, I think it IS possible to play a very effective laning Shaco if you go with Golem early instead of Lizard. Once you get level 6 or enough gold for Madred's you can then switch to jungle if you have a teammate who can 1v2. Golem will give you the mana to spam spells and essentially be effective in lane until at least Level 4. At that point just play it cool for a couple levels until you can start jungling.

For doing Golem, just place your jacks in the brush outside of the nearest lizard's range. Start placing at 0:32 and place whenever you have cooldown. Aggro by hitting the closest lizard and duck back into the brush. The Golem will come to you and hit the jacks. You then place a jack behind him mid fight to get the added fear if the Golem isn't dead, and this last jack should help you finish off the lizards. With Awareness talented you can get Level 2 from this encounter.

At Level 2 I usually take Deceive (just to help with harassment and jack placement - Deceive + Jack + Crit as fear hits and run back) because you can basically use jacks whenever they're up and some Deceives as well without running out of mana once you have Golem. At Level 3 take Shivs, which have a fantastic cooldown, and either harass your opponents if they have no regen or simply use your Shivs to last hit. Shaco can keep up with any laner with Golem buff, and once you get your Madred's and Clone you're golden from then on.

No need for Smite. I take Ignite and Exhaust. Currently I do Armor Pen Runes BUT take the Magic Pen talent in Offensive (9-0-21). The Pen makes your Level 1 Shivs great for harassment. It also makes your jacks hit harder, and I tend to max jacks despite doing an AD build. I think they're useful for the fear alone, despite the nerf, plus they greatly increase your jungle efficiency. Deceive and Shiv are useful to level but they don't REALLY scale until you get a lot of attack damage which is later in the game anyway. 1.75 second fear is ALWAYS good, plus they can tank for you + do hefty damage to jungle creeps.

That's it. Happy Shacoing.

Edit: OH, and I go Longsword + Health Pot. Madred's + Boots gold should come quick if you last hit effectively with Shivs + attacks when you can.


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True Bandito

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Senior Member

05-15-2010

Quote:
You do Golem first? I thought lizard would be better for first blood, as it increases AD?
Lizard has it's charm if you try for first blood right off the bat (like a mid gank), but I lane after Golem and use the Golem buff to spam my Two Shiv throws and JiTBs at the enemy since my mana will never go down and at level 3 or 4, I will attempt the FB since the enemy will have lower HP thanks to my Two Shiv spam.

Quote:
Also, I considered a Doran's item, but they don't build into anything, while long sword builds to the razors
True, but Doran's Ring will give you a far greater early game boost and Razors are very easy to get it afterwards anyway.

Quote:
Do you have problems with gold?
Yes I do, if I don't get any champion kills before level 6--especially if I am planning to go with Sunfire build. However, I usually have no problems with gold if I plan to go AD, with Razor my second item.

Quote:
What early items do you buy? Any potions?
Mana potions will be needed after your Golem buff wears off. Aside form potions, I get Doran's Ring and then Razors and boots if I will go AD; Giant's Belt if I am planning to go Sunfire.

My mastery is 21/0/9. I pick the 15% more duration for creeps buffs for my last Utility point and it helps tons for my laning as I can spam my shivs even longer.


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Calcabrina

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Well, hello again!
I've gotten to the point where I can solo the golem at level 1 consistently, but I still lose some health. From there I usually take the small camp nearby with 4 more jacks. I'm not sure how to continue, though. I'm only level 2, almost 3, so not yet strong enough to gank, I think. I don't usually have the health to take the other small camp or lizard, and not enough gold for Madred's yet. So I'm kind of stuck. I usually go lane at this point, but weakened as I am this I don't help my teammates much.
Ideally, I'd like to go from golem to small camp to small camp to lizard without needing to recall. That should net me the gold for Madreds, and then I can go for a gank, then return to the jungle. I usually start with longsword to build into Madred's, but I'm considering a doran's. I don't like the idea much, though, because it relies on getting kills for gold, and at my Elo I can't rely on my teammates to help me gank their lanes (I'm not exactly tearing people up either). So, I want to do more time in the jungle and less time standing around in lanes feeling silly. halp


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Eppa

Senior Member

05-20-2010

Squishy without Flash/ghost --> lizard
If not -> golem


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malphismia

Senior Member

05-20-2010

if you mean just getting the buff, thats not jungling.

If you're planting 4 jitbs for small camps, that's too long. Use smite for the small camps, use jitb stacks for runes. You'll need smite if you're jungling till 6, or you wont jungle fast enough.
You have to let your jitbs tank the minions or your health will be low --> cannot gank. One trick is to lay a jitb outside the camp, wait, then lay one inside camp, attack, inside jitb dies, move backwards, outside jitb tanks.


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Vlademir Sol

Senior Member

05-21-2010

Whenever I grab Lizard at level 1 with Shaco I usually go red elixer + 5 hp pots. You need to get a kill to pay it off though so it's risky (but you said you didn't have enough hp...this will give you alot of hp and the dmg from longsword) if your not level 2 after lizard go do the small camp beside it (not wraiths) you may have to use an hp pot or 2 but I don't take smite.