Should All Champs Be 100% Viable???

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Arandmoor

Senior Member

08-22-2011

Do you think that all champions should be as viable on Dominion as they are on Summoner's Rift?

Personally, I don't think they need to be. I'd even go so far to say that if the generally accepted top tier champs are different from Summoner's Rift to Dominion then the devs will have succeeded to a point.

All champs play different. Some champs are Tier 1 in Summoner's Rift right now, while others make up tiers 2, 3, and 4. When I switch from SR to Dom, I don't want to see the same exact champions I saw in SR. I want to see different champs because the game plays differently in the new game mode.

Should Cho'gath be changed because his ult isn't necessarily useful in Dominion? No, because he's a fairly strong pick in Summoner's Rift.

Should the Tear be gutted because some mages can endlessly spam spells while they wait for the game to start? No. Either disable the item's unique passive while you're in the starting zone or leave it alone, disable it in Dominion, and replace it with something that's not so abuseable (that can also be used in Manamune and Archmage's staff).

I've seen first hand what happens when you try to make sure everything is balanced between two completely different types of gameplay. I continually saw my PvE toons get gutted, rebuilt, hamstrung, and punted back to the top in a never-ending cycle during nearly seven years of WoW as the devs tried to keep PvE and PvP balanced.

Please Riot, don't go down that road. It leads to nothing but pain and misery. Just accept that some champions will be better suited to Summoner's Rift than they will be to Dominion and don't go around rebuilding everybody who doesn't quite fit.

If you go around rebuilding everyone, you'll just run into the same problem every time you try to release a new game mode. And it will never, ever get any easier (more modes = more factors to balance around = more things that can simply go wrong).

I would personally prefer it if you would outright disable champs that are mechanically broken on the game types they're broken on, and mark champions that are mechanically incompatible as being "officially weak" so that people know they shouldn't take them.

For example, if it turns out that having panthion, twisted fate, or shen is completely, over-the-top OP on dominion because of their ults, I would rather see them restricted to play on Summoner's Rift than have their ults further gutted because of dominion.

Please. Friends just tell friends to just say "no" to game type-specific balance changes. They're kind of like drugs. Once you start, you won't ever stop (and they will destroy you).

TL;DR: Don't balance champs around game types like SR and Dominion. Darken their portraits to mark them as "officially unviable for this game type" or disable them completely if they're mechanically OP instead of trying to "balance".

If you want my reasoning, you shouldn't be skipping to the tldr.


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5071

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Senior Member

08-22-2011

I think all champs should be viable on all maps. But making them perfectly balanced for each is pretty much impossible. Some champs will always be better than others, but hopefully that doesn't mean those other champs will be totally useless.


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Thisdude1

Senior Member

08-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5071 View Post
I think all champs should be viable on all maps. But making them perfectly balanced for each is pretty much impossible. Some champs will always be better than others, but hopefully that doesn't mean those other champs will be totally useless.
any ad carry or support on 3s = useless


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5071

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Senior Member

08-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisdude1 View Post
any ad carry or support on 3s = useless
Tryndamere is probably the best example of an AD carry in the whole game and he's one of the best on TT. Master Yi is pretty good too.


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DanyalZ

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Senior Member

08-22-2011

i think he means ranged dps. Not Melle dps who dominate next to tanki dps


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Poptart1933

Senior Member

08-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisdude1 View Post
any ad carry or support on 3s = useless
incorrect. janna and lux are both good in 3's


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Yaezakura

Senior Member

08-23-2011

I think when it comes to balance, what matters most is that champions be as balanced as possible around each other, not the specific map. If Tank A is as good at being a tank as Tank B is, then both should perform equally well in both game modes, even if the role they play in those modes is different.

For instance, we look at Rammus. Rammus can capture Windmill faster than any other champion between Boots of Mobility, Powerball, and Ghost. Without any help at all from allies, he can usually capture Windmill before the enemy team even reaches it. Is this overpowered? I don't think so. You're expending a LOT of resources to make that fast capture. You're playing a Rammus with no defense at all for that first team fight, and he's already popped the cooldown of his main skill and a summoner spell. And while he does retain that ability to reach isolated points faster than most other champions, you then have a strong defensive aspect of your team that isn't actually contributing to defense.

But I also think it's good that Rammus has that option. He gets to do more than just be a tank in Dominion--he can be a lightning-fast point grabber, always being exactly where the enemy team doesn't want him to be in the blink of an eye. It creates a great tradeoff between building for the defensive role he normally plays and doing sneak captures. The more he invests in items to help him capture points, such as movespeed items and the item that boosts capture speed, the less of a tank he'll be able to be.

Do I think TF will be useful in Dominion? Yes I do. He can use his ultimate to reach pretty much any point instantly and capture it while vulnerable. But he can only do it so often, and if he does, then he won't be able to reach an allied point in time to defend it, or to secure a kill on an enemy who escapes from one of his allies. Everything's a tradeoff. Any time you blow an ult on offense, you won't have it for defense for a long, long time.

So, yeah. That's my thoughts on the matter. So long as the champions are balanced against other champions that fill the same role, they should all be equally useful in either mode of the game. And that's what matters most.


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RavenGlenn

Senior Member

08-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisdude1 View Post
any ad carry or support on 3s = useless
Umm...no?

Trynd, Yi, Lux, Morgana?


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OrcsMom

Senior Member

08-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arandmoor View Post
Do you think that all champions should be as viable on Dominion as they are on Summoner's Rift?
Not all champions are 100% viable in Summoners Rift.
Balancing for champions to be 100% viable in different modes is a head ache of a task.

I mean you have mundo, who was originally an okay pick on summoners rift, then he got nerfed to hell and back because of his viability on TT. So now we got people dodging quenes just because someone picked Mundo on summoners rift.

To balance for 100% viability for different modes at the same time is far too difficult.

Concentration should be made to balance the characters for a single map first then a secondary. (Which I doubt will be any time soon)

So far we can expect characters that are too powerful in dominion being nerfed to make Dominion more fun while inadvertently ruining their viability for Summoners Rift. and Vice Versa.


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Ions03

Senior Member

08-23-2011

You cant use 100% of the champs on the Summoners Rift / Twisted Treeline / Or the new mode...

This is a spam game pick top burst champs on dom who can live / do max damage and win Playable this isnt dota and 100% of the champs will bnever be playable some ability's r 2 good if they r 2 buffed (due to scaling ap /ad) Look at GP / Panth buffed super op went from trash to gods its how buffs / nerfs work if a champ is buffed probley op nerfed useless its just how this game works u gotta remove champs that get forgotten about and move on this game replaces champs with new ones....


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