Shaco and Clone/Controllable Minions Mechanics

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1337 FL33T

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Junior Member

08-19-2011

First of all, I feel Shaco needs a slight buff, he's just too squishy for a melee based assassin.. forcing you to build defensive items, cutting down offensive power.

Deceive at the moment is perfectly balance imo, it doesn't do OP damage, and the flash/stealth mechanism is a perfect trade-off between dedicated engage and an escape/juke skill.

Shiv scaling with BONUS attack damage and AP (while 1:1 and GREAT) make him really weak early game damage output-wise and ridiculously squishy (easily 3 shotted) late game if building pure offensive power... The standard combo I use is Shiv > deceive > auto attack right before stealth ends > Shiv again soon as possible with CD reduction. Unless clone is mixed in, it is really hard to snag a kill, since most people are smart enough to return to safety when they are weak, making chasing impossible and boxes useless. Playing Shaco is like playing a gimpy, non-tanky Nunu w/o a heal.

Opinion: Shiv slow should be more prominent, or it should have a really small stun, maybe .25 sec - .5 sec so the clone can catch up

Boxes in lane are totally worthless due to minions, the best they can do is be placed in bushes to keep opponents from camping there. In mid-late game fights, they can easily be taken out with an auto attack before the 2 second setup time is over, or by AOE attacks not even aimed at them (like blitz ult or annie inferno, EVEN SORAKA STARCALL). Hell, the opposing team can even just move away 2-3 feet in the 2 seconds it takes to trigger.
His boxes must be a real pain to balance, if stacked together, they can easily decimate anyone that comes near with an AP build, on the other hand they are essentially useless due to all the AOE's flying around and the 2 second delay in team fights. Even more so with AD/Hybrid build as they do significantly less damage, and as you're an assassin and you have to engage the enemy and not the other way around, nobody (almost nobody at least) is dumb enough to fall for baits into stacked boxes... especially ones done by shaco. Box stacking generally a waste of time, and kiting with them takes a really long pre-preparation time. Ganking in lane is totally useless with boxes as they react to minions too, and prioritize minions over champions unless they are attacking you, (and such, champions just walk 3 steps away and continue to shoot spells at you).

Opinion: Boxes should have a toggle between their regular function and either: Not be trigger by minions OR Only be triggered when Shaco is in combat
Also, boxes can be seen being placed even if u don't have sight of Shaco atm (like deceive), that should be fixed :<

Clone: I love it, it's perfectly balanced, maybe even a little OP. Thanks for fixing the items on the clone RIOT! Neutral buffs, sheen, item actives and skills still differentiate the clone from the original but if it didn't, IT'D BE SOOOOOOOOO OP. I mean... auto-break leash, and momentary invincibility from everything on active is ammmmaaaaaaaaaaazing. There are... however, 2 bugs.. Or maybe they are intended. If u try on control clone from the get-go as u use ultimate, you control urself and not the clone until u let go and press alt again and click after both clone and Shaco reappears on the map. Also, when you die, you lose control of the clone, though it still carries out the last action you told it to do. I think it would be more consistent for the clone to auto-explode soon as the owner dies like Tibbers, or let you have full control in death. Here are some tweaks I'd like to see happen with controllable minion mechanics though...

Tweaks: Stop command, ALT-S. Sometimes you just need them to stop, maybe to take a skillshot for you. Minions still auto engage and move out of position when there are enemies nearby if you tell them to walk to a random location, its aggravating at times.
Have you and minion walk to same point at the same time, maybe Shift + right click? When you lead the clone, its pretty obvious that the real one is in front, when you try to have the clone lead, you and it usually walk in different directions because you have to click twice for each point you want to go. It just doesn't look smooth and it gives away the plan right away to any skilled player.

I love playing Shaco, he's a little more micro intensive in fights then click and roflstomp champions like Malhazar. I'd be great to see a little buff after the HURTFUL HURTFUL box breaks stealth nerf.

Here's a replay of me melting face in a normal game, this RARELY happens, I've probably gone over 20 kills and w/ k/d over 5 maybe 4 times in 2 months of gameplay with Shaco, while it happens every other game with Akali or Lux (whom I main).

http://www.mediafire.com/?izfv5ualc5bssaa

view with LOL Replay from http://www.leaguereplays.com/

I have yet to see Shaco being played in a ranked match :<

Also... The clone and the original impede each other's path while chasing the same target which I find very INFURIATING, it'd be nice to remove collisions for only Shaco and his clone which would give a few extra auto attacks on the chase


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Kehlin

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Senior Member

08-19-2011

he's an assassin. if he was stronger it wouldnt be fair. look at eve, twitch, leblanc. though xin isnt squishy which i dont get


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1337 FL33T

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Junior Member

08-19-2011

Eve i'll give to you, sooooo nerfed atm

Twitch's attack power vastly overshadow's Shaco's... First.. He's RANGED, meaning he can cut off the opponent's path of escape in stealth, then autoattack all day, he's supposed to outdamage the opponent before they can kill him, which Shaco cannot do due to lack of combat buff skills (twitch's poison and IAS). Shaco focus on chasing (slow and backstab innate) but... who would run away if u could just fight and win? The Clone actually BLOCKS pathing when chasing too, Shaco and the Clone bump into each other continuously trying to autoattack a fleeing champion

Don't even talk about LeBlanc, she is considered the most OP burst damage caster in the game. If Shaco had equal offensive abilites as LeBlanc, I'd be playing ranked matches right now instead of Q.Qing about Shaco.


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T3hM4dn3ss

Junior Member

08-20-2011

This... Shaco needs a buff, totally agree. The combined movement mechanic is interesting, I think it would compliment higher level play.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

08-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337 FL33T View Post
Don't even talk about LeBlanc, she is considered the most OP burst damage caster in the game.
By whom? Most Leblanc players, and some non-players even, have said that she needs a buffs. She's pretty much useful only mid game. Early game, can't combo her skills very easily. Mid game, faceroll. Late game, her damage output is pretty low so...

This Shaco buff idea's great. I don't play him yet but from what I know, and what ones I play against, he could use it.


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Sogreth

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Senior Member

08-20-2011

LB isn't OP. she has a strong early game, and a very weak late game, only reason people QQ about being OP is because they hand themselves to her on a silver platter and say: "Don't forget to ask for seconds!" And Twitch...well, his ult is soooo easy to dodge, just don't walk straight at him or away from him, walk sideways until his ult is over, Eve I think is fine now, she used to be OP and made people ragequit, she is in a good place now, she can easily eat the squisies on the other team, and also make a great set-up for your carries to get free kills