Gold/10 Second item... Worth it?

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Atmosfear

Senior Member

09-11-2009

I know Avarice blade is very useful, at least when I play melee heros. The item is affordable and provides a nice bonus to crit. Usually holds me over until I can afford better crit items after selling the blades.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morzas

Senior Member

09-11-2009

Some of those guides might be outdated. I remember reading somewhere that the Avarice Blade and its ilk used to have a much higher sell price.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TechGorilla

Member

09-11-2009

I think when you make the math you should substract the amount you use for the first items, cause in the end its a questions of what you are paying for to get the 5g/sec buff not the other ones wich belong mainly to the main item.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Doctor Awesome

Senior Member

09-11-2009

Consider the following:

All characters have a natural 14g/10s income, or 84g/min. Each 1g/10s (6g/min) you gain equates to a roughly 7.14% increase to your income, at a cost of the amount of time it takes for you to cover the gold loss.

For example, Kage's Lucky Pick costs 765 gold and sells for 382. If you buy one, your income increases by 35.7% to a new rate of 19g/10s (114g/min) but you have to accumulate gold for about 200 seconds (3.3 minutes) to break even, assuming you're going to sell it back at some point (and thus only have to make up 382g.)

If you buy a second Pick, your income has increased by 26.3% (relative to your current, boosted income) to 24g/10s (144g/min), but you have to accumulate gold for another roughly 160 seconds (2.66 minutes) before you break even. You are now at a 71.4% increase to your base income, at the cost of 5 minutes of "no" natural income, because those 5 minutes were just to break even. You could interpret this as, you pause your income for 5 minutes, then get 171% income rate for the rest of the game.

Take note that these calculations do not account for farming, and the actual time spent between buying Picks is ignored; obviously, results will be better if you spend as little time between buying the picks as possible, and their value is depreciated significantly the later you buy them. Assuming you bought the two Picks simultaneously, it would take you 5.3 minutes to break even, then another 3.1 minutes to make up for the gold you weren't earning during those five minutes. The larger the gap between your first and second picks, the larger this time will become; as a benchmark, I'll say if you buy two picks as fast as reasonably possible, it will take you approximately 10 to 12 minutes to pull ahead of just natural income. However, after those 10 to 12 minutes, you are earning money 71% faster than your non-cash-item-using allies.

Now, for comparison: taking the Greed mastery, and three Avarice runes, equates to an extra 4g/10s (24g/min) from the start of the game, meaning you have no pay-off or make-up time--you just earn 28.6% more gold from the word go. In a 35 minute game, this equates to roughly 840 extra gold by the end of the game--basically, boots for free.

However, it bears mentioning, that taking Greed and Avarice runes makes cash items better because it reduces the pay-off/make-up time of your cash items. With the augmented income, your first pick is paid for in 2.77 minutes, 17% faster. Your second pick is paid for in 2.28 minutes, another 15% faster. If you were to buy the two simultaneously, they would be paid off in 4.55 minutes, and the extra gold made up in 2.2, after which you're earning gold 100% faster than your base rate--and you did it 100% faster than if you hadn't gotten Greed and Avarice runes! If you are planning on playing a character that can use cash items, you owe it to yourself to use 'em--they make you earn gold faster, faster.

So what characters are they good for? Basically,

  • Characters who farm poorly,
  • Characters who are heavily item-dependent,
  • Characters who rely on getting kills for most of their income,
  • Carries, so they can maximize their end-game power
  • Characters who tend to die a lot?
Or any combination of the above--they do tend to overlap.

Now, some caveats:

  • Most of the above calculations are made in ideal conditions--two picks bought simultaneously/as soon as possible, etc.; This means that it will be very rare that you will get quite that sweet of a deal. But, when you account for natural income, you should be able to get pretty close, so it won't be noticeably worse.
  • Although I said they're good on carries to maximize their endgame, an equally viable alternative is to make them as powerful as possible early game to make sure they even get to have a late game--most carries tend to be vulnerable to early shut-outs.
  • The calculations are all made using Kage's Lucky Pick. If you buy Avarice Blades instead, you'll get all your payoffs slightly faster, but 12% crit is generally a little weaker than AP (except on some characters like, say, Gangplank.) If you go for Philosopher's Stone, it will pay off much later, but Philosopher's stone is such a fantastic item that a lot of people like to keep it until very late game.
  • If you don't end up selling back the item, double all pay-off/make-up times in the above calculations.
Hope this gives you some perspective.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cyclone

Junior Member

09-12-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostdreams View Post
The only person to get the gold items on is Evelynn. Period. Everyone else doesn't need it. Regen helps to stay in the game without going to heal and spamming q, and the picks help with her q spam damage + farming/killing. The extra gold + is just an added bonus.
completely false, wrong, awful, no


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

YummyCheese

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Adjudicator

09-12-2009

I tend the get them ONLY at my first fountain trip, and only if I don't need another item very early. For example for most mages I try to get my tear quickly (a few I don't, but on AP stacking ones I generally do). But otherwise I find they are usually a pretty good investment, especially if you don't plan on filling up your inventory fast they are GREAT filler items - kind of like Ironwood branches in DotA - great price for stats as long as you don't plan on selling them that soon.

For example I'd get ironwoods on Mirana because my next few items would be Bottle/Boots and I wouldn't take another fountain trip for a while - so the ironwoods last me a long time. However, when I'm playing, say, Void, my first few items will be Wraiths/Wraith Components so I'll be filing up my slots real quickly. Same applies for LoL.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mr Tibbers

Member

09-12-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostdreams View Post
The only person to get the gold items on is Evelynn. Period. Everyone else doesn't need it. Regen helps to stay in the game without going to heal and spamming q, and the picks help with her q spam damage + farming/killing. The extra gold + is just an added bonus.
Woooo! You're so damned wrong it's not funny at all.

TF is good with Picks in AP build. He's good with Avarice in DPS build.
Gangplank is good with Avarice.
Hell, they can even work on Ashe. Expand your view a bit there bud...there are plenty of heroes it's viable on and a handful of heroes that it is amazing with. Evelynn isn't the only one...in fact, she doesn't even come to mind when I think +gold/10 items. :/


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Neutron

Junior Member

09-13-2009

iv tryed to get the sword for 1godl/10sec with dr mundo cause of dmg and health and hoped for mass gold in late it worked good cause this is all waht a hero like him need but i think it wont work for others its better to get ur itme build and farm just ignore this +gold


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aspartem

Senior Member

09-13-2009

Quote: Big Wall of Text.

There's already a mistake in the first paragraph so all your math below is wrong. Sure, you'll have an income of 114, but you'll have to come up for these 382g with the additional gold income not with your total. Else your assumption is wrong.
We're lookin' here at the opportunity costs of buying the recepie in comparison to something else, and how long these extra 5g/10s need to cover up their own cost. And 382/30g => 12,75~ minutes. And not 3,3 which makes the items alot less useful.
Then you said, Avarice Runes and Greed will help to reach the break-even point faster, that also wrong. Because they have the same effect if i don't buy the item too, so actually they've no influence on our experiment.

The simple question is: When does the additional gold income amortize it's cost. Imo, they're not worth it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Darkening

Senior Member

09-13-2009

LOL @ Evelynn being the only one who needs these items. I play Jax and normally pick up the health regen item first and upgrade it to Philo stone at first fountain trip, and it works great. I need the mana/health regen anyways, and the gold is just an awesome perk.


123