Wriggle's Lantern > more then 1 doran

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Banff

Senior Member

08-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3mptylord View Post
30 armor provides 30% "effective health". In other words, any champion with 1000+ health will find 30 armor more beneficial than 300 health (but I can't think of any champion that doesn't have 1000+ health by the time they have 3 Doran's Blades. The only time 300 health would be more beneficial is against magic champions, as you will notice no difference (or at least no negative difference) against physical damage.

As for it disrupting a champion's last hitting ability... well that's just silly. The concept of last hitting is to only last hit. It doesn't matter if Madred's procs: it was the last hit. If you're attacking the minion from full health you're doing it wrong anyway.

Nillthium poses a good argument. The loss of 7 AD and having 300 less health against magical damage are the only reasons not to do this (and that's assuming you don't buy one Doran's Blade to start you off, since that little bit of early lifesteal you don't get from a Long Sword is actually quite impacting).

1x Doran's Blade + 1x Wriggle's Lantern is still more cost effective. 21% life steal, 100 health, 30 armor and 33 damage. 2075g upfront cost; 1418g back when you sell it; loss of 657g after selling. In this instance, you're losing out on 200 health (but again, 30 armor is more effective against physical damage and the sheer amount of extra lifesteal as well as bonus wards...).

Thats not the way armor works.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Symmon

Senior Member

08-17-2011

I went ahead and tried to express this concept graphically so that i could wrap my head around it. Basically as compared to a 3 dorans blade rush, the power levels will be decreased up until you get to 1600 gold.

At the point you get to 1600 gold and can buy the wriggles outright your power level will be increased comprable to 3 dorans blades. This is assuming the lane is agianst an ad doing the majority of the damage. Now, this advantage will continue, with small gaps in your power relative to an opposing 3 dorans carry (when they get their bf sward slightly before you, and get their first legendary item).

I dont think you can discount the slight advantage when they get the BF sword, but you may be able to discount the first legendary item advantage, because hopefully your wriggles has allowed you slightly more farm over the course of that time at one point.

So, basically if you dont go back from level 4-9 and are able to farm up 1600 gold flat out there is no reason not to get this, especially if you started with boots.

Ashe will go over 1000 hp at level 8 just from base HP, so if you started boots a wriggles would be roughly as powerful in hp department vs an ad, and would be superior in lane sustain as well as x factor of wards and dragon / buff / lane pushing ability.

Something else to consider is that this strategy would allow a hero such as vayne, who gets natural bonus true damage from AS to consider going phantom dancer or even zeal prior to going IE / BT. The ability to get this much early speed / proc can make her a terror if left unattended in lane, and give her real effectiveness in a matchup vs an opposing ad carry / tanky combo.

In the graph that I drew the wriggles had more area under the curve total, and if you were to get it all at once, the area under the curve is markedly in favor of wriggles.

Good idea, I hope my napkin analysis is helpful.

(Musings of a formally trained systems engineer)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

axesandspears

Senior Member

08-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingmeister View Post
Most games are decided before you ever sell anything back. It is the power of the items, needed power, and threat of ganks that decides what you should build.

5 Doran's items each and complete denial of the opposing bottom team is a perfectly reasonable way for 2 dps to share bottom lane, for example.
Not sure that's always true, some tanks can't really go for 5 doran's shields because they don't get much money and need to start on their real tanking items as early as possible.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eddiot

Senior Member

08-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
Not sure that's always true, some tanks can't really go for 5 doran's shields because they don't get much money and need to start on their real tanking items as early as possible.
You appear to have missed the "2 DPS" part.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Naramiel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

08-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by nillthium View Post
3 dorans gives 9% life steal 300 hp 30 damage cost 1425g Sell for 714g total price after selling 711g
1 WL gives 18% life steal 30 armor 23 damage cost 1600g Sell for 1120g total price after selling 420g

EDIT:

3 dorans gives 9% life steal 300 hp 30 damage cost 1425g Sell for 714g total price after selling 711g
1 WL and 1 dora gives 21% life steal 30 armor 33 damage cost 2075g Sell for 1358g total price after selling 657g
1600 - 1120 = 480 (not 420)
2075 - 1358 = 717 (not 657)

Don't think that messes up your point, just wanted to point out the actual figures so you can fix them up.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ruiner2003

Member

08-17-2011

The OP analysis has a few fatal flaws to it

One was already pointed out. If you farm enough for a wriggles lantern yes you could certainly purchase it. One of the main advantages of the Doran's items is their high efficacy in terms of stats for a relatively cheap cost. They are best utilized to attempt to balance out a lane if your hero is losing and not able to farm as effectively as your opponent. So if you have to go back to base with only 900 gold and you only buy a few components of the wriggles, youre not necessarily as strong in your next lane phase as you would have been if you purchased a doran's item since a wriggles is component based and a certain amount of gold is required for certain benefits (i.e completing the item)

The other major flow in the analysis is that 30 armor is only more effective than 300 hp if your hero has over 1000 HP AND if your opponent is doing nothing but right clicking to fight you. 30 armor with 0 additional hp does absolutely nothing against magic damage. Even AD characters have spells that do magic damage, and if youre a carry up against a caster is far less useful than 300 HP. (This includes ignite of course which many heroes run)
The increased lifesteal would doubtfully equal out the difference in hp as most fights happen very quickly, and probably dont last long enough for you to leech the difference of 300 HP with a 9% leech difference

So in certain scenarios a wriggles might be better(but they would be very sparce), but considering magic damage and ignite and low damage output early game, Id say Dorans items are far better for laning than Wriggles


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ebonclaw

Senior Member

08-18-2011

You don't -build- a Wriggle's because it is more cost effective. You -buy- the Doran's because it's better than a single Long Sword, or a single Vamp Scepter, or a single Cloth Armor.

If you can afford better, you should generally get it, but the best time to stack Doran's is when you've managed to die and can't afford anything larger than the Doran's, so you're in a position to need the most cost effective single item that you can afford with your 5-600g that you were sent back with.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MagicDucks

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-18-2011

For ad carry I generally get att speed boots and farm until I have enough for a madres razor, then its jungling time, when I'm done jungling I will have enough for the lantern and be levels ahead of every one else plus be able to ward for the team.


12